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North Kites confusion! On purpose???

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edt
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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby edt » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:08 am

i would rather the vegas just stay the same like the rebel has and if hadlow needs a 6 line kite with no middle strut make him a new kite, don't tweak the vegas just to suit him

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Westozzy » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:20 am

From the breeze...

Weight: 72 KG Level: advanced Style: Freestyle Weather: 15-20 knots, choppy conditions Build Quality: 10/10 Satisfaction: 6/10 Hi all, Yesterday I had the opportunity to test fly the new 2015 Vegas for 15 min. Kite size 12 m, lines were 24 m and I flew it on the regular 5th line setting. There is no difference between the Won't Stop design and the Headlow version except the graphics. You can also ride the Won't stop edition with the new 6th line setup (Headlow setting). In the past I have always been riding the vegas (since the first one came out in 2006). Now, I would say that the 2011/2012/2013 and 2014 vegas were pretty similar in terms of handling. The 2015 is a big change and has a completely different feeling. You can definitely feel that Headlow had a huge influence on the design. I has become just a freestyle/competition kite. The steering is very delayed, quite hard bar pressure as well. There is quite a big ground pull from the kite. Shifting the bar up and down has almost no effect. Therefore the wind range is probably not as big as with previous models. For somebody that is just into freestyling/wakestyling I could recommend the kite. For somebody that enjoyed the big versatility of previous models I would not recommend it. Probably the new dice would be the better option. Curious to read about other opinions on the new vegas.. Cheers.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Babel » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:39 pm

Westozzy wrote:So what ya riding now babel or have you already said this?
Still testing aound for new ones. At the moment ranges of RPM, Neo (2012) and Rebel (2014) and one Evo (2013). Rebel every year the new one.

@ Nor: Might sound like it. As you can see, I am generally a big fan of North Kiteboarding. Yet, I am a bigger fan of quality, mostly buying German engineering and stuff. Thats why I was quiet disappointed by a minor quality issue like the patch.

Anyway, will shop around what else is out there. Hearing good things about Core. Switch seems to have quality build.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby paulie » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:12 pm

edt wrote:i would rather the vegas just stay the same like the rebel has and if hadlow needs a 6 line kite with no middle strut make him a new kite, don't tweak the vegas just to suit him
2015 Vegas still has a middle strut, but has much squarer tips. It has been moved into the hard core freestyle market. After nearly 10 years on Vegas's I think this is a shame.. Love my slightly freeride but also freestyle Vegas's.. Dice doesn't appeal so I will be looking elsewhere...

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Westozzy » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:34 pm

Babel wrote:
Westozzy wrote:So what ya riding now babel or have you already said this?
Still testing aound for new ones. At the moment ranges of RPM, Neo (2012) and Rebel (2014) and one Evo (2013). Rebel every year the new one.

@ Nor: Might sound like it. As you can see, I am generally a big fan of North Kiteboarding. Yet, I am a bigger fan of quality, mostly buying German engineering and stuff. Thats why I was quiet disappointed by a minor quality issue like the patch.

Anyway, will shop around what else is out there. Hearing good things about Core. Switch seems to have quality build.


That core gst3 looks an interesting kite. Depends on how you want to ride I suppose. If you are looking at rpms, gst3 type kites try the new dice, it's been suped up some. Oh and has a patch..bahahahahahah

Or rebel types, the switch nitro. Build quality is good on these kites no matter how much we like to think they shouldn't be. I just didn't like how they flew for me that it. Give me a rebel anyday of the week. But that was only a quick ride, then again I've flown that many kites doesn't take me long to see if they suite or not.

Good luck on your search man.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:10 am

edt-
I agree with you on the confusion raised by such a redesign of the Evo. I also understand your thoughts that we could have called it the Fuse or something else, but we put a lot of effort into educating our dealers and the public so most people adapted to it fairly easily. I also agree that it's not the norm for North to shakeup the lineup like that, but in my opinion it was needed as there was too much overlap and confusion in design criteria for each model. Now that it's done and we're heading into our 2nd year with the new clarified lineup I think it was worth it and I'm really happy with the line as a whole and I don't expect any big changes like it in the foreseeable future.

In that vein, as others have said, the Vegas continues to be the freestyle/wakestyle kite in our range. It did get a big redesign, but the redesign does not fundamentally change the Vegas' place in our lineup. The Vegas was and will continue to be our wakestyle/freestyle kite.

For those curious, I have two bits of feedback on the 2015 Vegas. The first is from our international team guys. They absolutely love the redesign. They've been asking for a more 'hardcore' freestyle/wakestyle kite for a while and now they have it. They say that on the standard 5-line bar that we've had for years that the Vegas remains freeride friendly enough for old Vegas lovers to still enjoy it. Then there are a couple other setups that make the kite progressively more aggressive and tuned for advanced riding.

The second bit of feedback I have is from a quick session I got on one of the 'medium-hard-core' settings, and I think I have to agree with Westozzy's review... It's considerably more advanced and less forgiving than past Vegas's. Sheeting in and out has much less effect on the power of the kite, but when you get the right pop and do everything correctly the kite really rewards you with great slack. A good raley feels REALLY good, but it's a bit harder to get it, and when you screw up it lets you know. I did not get a chance to ride the kite in the 'freeride' setup, but I would be very surprised if it really is as freeride-friendly as previous Vegas' have been.

On the other hand, I've also got some time on the 2015 Dice in the flatwater/park (haven't had a chance to ride it in the waves yet) and I have to say it's noticeably better than the 2014 for freestyle/wakestyle. It feels very natural, loops are really smooth and powered, and either I've gotten a lot better or it's got all the slack I was used to getting on the 2014 Vegas. I really liked the 2014 Dice, but I stuck with Vegas' as my kite of choice last year because I spend so much time in the flatwater and I felt the Vegas was slightly better in performance and feel. Since we've gotten the 2015 Dice I haven't gone back to the Vegas, so I think there's a very good chance that I switch to being a Dice guy this year (though I definitely want to give the 2015 Vegas some more time).
In my opinion, the 2015 Dice satisfies all of my flatwater needs that I'd previously relied on the Vegas for.

I'm sure there will be some freeriders who will be disappointed in the new Vegas, but I'm going to urge all of those people to try the new Dice. Last year I saw a lot of national level freestyle and freeride riders switch from Vegas to Dice, and I expect that to continue, while those who really need and can use the wake/freestyle ability of the Vegas now have even more performance available. Having Hadlow get involved in increasing that performance, and giving him free reign to make the Vegas as hardcore as he wants seems logical to me considering the performance abilities of the Dice.

It's not that we arbitrarily gave Hadlow the Vegas to do with what he wanted... We had planned a large redesign of the Vegas to make it more hardcore in light of the performance abilities of the Dice, and Aaron happened to join up at a very opportune moment when we were willing and able to put his design ideas into practice. Make sense?

-Dan

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby edt » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:49 am

Thanks for the explanation Dan. Ruben Lenten you know has his own kite line the Extract at Best which allowed Best to continue making their Best GP. That's what I expected North to do also come out with a "North Hadlow" so the Vegas could be unchanged.

The old Vegas will definitely be missed.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Billy B. » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:07 am

edt wrote:Thanks for the explanation Dan. Ruben Lenten you know has his own kite line the Extract at Best which allowed Best to continue making their Best GP. That's what I expected North to do also come out with a "North Hadlow" so the Vegas could be unchanged.

The old Vegas will definitely be missed.
The extract was created for Len10 because the GP did not fit his liking. Not because it gave best a chance to make a signature kite...

I would recommend laying a extract on a fuel for inspiration.

I listened to the guys who ride the 2015 Vegas and it sounds Like the kite changes a bunch in Hadlow mode. So it must have some free ride soul, in none Hadlow mode.. this is all hearsay from the wakestyle crew.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby boardjockey » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:55 am

Won't stop, but sales of the new Vegas may slow down.

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Re: North Kites confusion! On purpose???

Postby Westozzy » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:44 am

Yeh dans spot on about the new dice. Infact as I may have said before used to fly the 2014 dice on a low Y bar to try and open up the canopy, reduce the lag and give me power on tap on the flat water. In the waves I just used the normal north quad. Only problem with the low Y, you ran out of bar throw and you had to be be really precise with your trim otherwise you'd stall the kite...stalling and dice aren't two words you normally put together but it did. Even then your bar throw was somewhat reduced.

The new dice doesn't need a low Y as it has that opened up flatter canopy in the centre and this is spread throughout eh design and the bridalling. So you get that more reactive kite, better bottom end (more obvious), better slack and you can really load and pop against a more seemingly more powerful kite (noticeably so, it's not just a subtle change), plus you really feel the kite through the loops more...and it's done without loss of bar throw and all the negatives the low Y I used to use on the dice on flat water. That video clip going around for the new dice wants me to throw up, damn well insulting, but what Tom says is actually true, I've experienced it. Infact I noticed all of this mid June way before the vid release as I had been on the demos already. So that made that ridiculous cheesy and downright insulting clip actually okay to get through. It won't be played again!!! Seriously north are we that stupid...maybe we are :(

But ya best to demo if you can, never buy a kite based on what people say here...well I have though :D but in principle, get on one and see for yourself. It was a cracker last year and it has got noticeably better this year (for the above) but you'd expect that on a second gen kite...not sure how'd they'd improve the 3rd gen to be honest with you.


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