Smaler BRM clouds

[aeberl]

There is a lot of feedback on the larger clouds as lightwind kites, but I am interested in the performance of the smaller sizes for 15 to 25 knot wind in head high ground swell.
I weigh 80kg, ride a common 6' surfboard in 15 to 25knot side/side-off wind on up to 3m clean waves. So far my weapon of choice is a 10m SS Rally (2012) which needs replacement. How do the BRM's stack up?

[cleepa]

There is a lot of feedback on the larger clouds as lightwind kites, but I am interested in the performance of the smaller sizes for 15 to 25 knot wind in head high ground swell.
I weigh 80kg, ride a common 6' surfboard in 15 to 25knot side/side-off wind on up to 3m clean waves. So far my weapon of choice is a 10m SS Rally (2012) which needs replacement. How do the BRM's stack up?

I weigh just a tiny bit more than you and ride in similar wind (but with a higher upper limit here). I have the 5, 6, 8, 10m C1 Clouds. For me, the smaller sizes are where it's at - the performance of these kites is amazing. Makes sense: Greg designed them that way. The Cloud started as a high performance kite for the small sizes. It was only later that the larger sizes evolved. I spend 99% of my time on either the 5, the 6 or the 8 and almost never use the 10.

A friend of mine rides the Rallys and is about the same size. When he's out on his 10, I'm on my 8 or 6. He sometimes rides with more power than he needs, whereas I ride with just enough to get me upwind, which probably explains why I can often use the 6 when he is on the 10.

I'm going to sound like a broken record saying this... but the performance of the Clouds blows anything else away I have seen or tried. For their size they are faster. For their size, they have a lot of power, meaning you downsize a lot which makes them feel faster still. They have really short throw to totally kill the kite power. Because they are so light (and because of the lack of struts), when you slack the lines or ride underneath it, they just drift back into the window and power back up, whereas with a strutted kite doing so can make the nose dip after which it won't recover. The way they drift is amazing. They also let you initiate turns with almost no kite power, which has saved me when being late with a turn more times than I care to think about.

The Clouds are super sensitive kites. Because of that, factors that you might not notice with other kites can make a big difference with the Cloud. Bar tuning is really important - much more so than I ever thought.

I find it hard to imagine going back to normal kites.

[aeberl]

I like to ride the 10m SS Rally well powered (in tis upper limit ot its wind range).
The C2 is being offered in 7 & 9m.... which one would you recommend as a replacement?

[herbert]

Cleepa has more experience than I with the smaller Clouds So I would defer to him if his opinion is different. Anyway, replacing a 10 Rally? The 9m Cloud will be closest..especially if you like to ride well powered. If much of the time the Rally feels right but when the wind changes more often you wished you had a little bigger kite...then 9. If more often when the wind changes you wish you had a smaller kite...then 7. I can go out in about equivalent wind conditions and with the same board with my 13.5 Cult, 13.5 RRD and 12 Cloud. But I only use the Cloud.

And Cleepa is right, you are in for a treat.

[aeberl]

One last thing, any issues relaunching?

[herbert]

No "issue" relaunching so to speak. I think it could be summed up like this:
Since it drifts so well and is so reluctant to stall....I put it in the water much less often. This is obviously personal style and technique dependent.

Regarding the actually relaunch...there are slightly different techniques involved. (as shown on the website's video). If you do that, it will relaunch with the same or better success percentage as other kites (just my experience). Because it is a "different" kind of kite, I could envision a scenario in which I could not relaunch a Cloud but could relaunch a strutted kite. And I could envision a scenario in which I could relaunch a Cloud but not relaunch a strutted kite. But...averaging all relaunch attempts...the Cloud is as easy or easier than other kites (if you know how).

Because I fly the 12 in higher winds....never had a failure to relaunch. I have relaunched the 17 many times...but twice, when the wind lull dropped to about 5 mph I couldn't. With better technique now, I wouldn't drop the kite in that wind now.

[cleepa]

One last thing, any issues relaunching?

Relaunch is a bit different, but not radically so. There are a few little things you learn - things to do and things not to do.

In the waves, though, is where differences are more important. For me, I most often manage to crash my kite in the waves by riding towards it while doing some kind of downwards kite turn. With the Cloud and this type of crash, you have got to be quick to get it back in the air. If a wave hits it in this position with you still attached to the bar, it can sometimes invert. Personally, I have never had much luck with any kite getting it back in the air after a wave hits it, so my preference is to release the kite before the wave hits it and follow it in. I generally end up on the beach before the kite anyway.

As for size to replace a 10m Rally, I think the 9 might be right, too. Ask Greg at BRM what he thinks.

But speaking for myself, I think the Cloud really comes alive when you aren't super lit. That is when it is at its most responsive. When I start to get overpowered on the Cloud (or any kite), it becomes much less fun.

[tautologies]

I have the 9. Its a killer kite. My preference is the the second version...it really matured the kite, and it performs great in and on waves. It takes a session to get used to, but once you figure out how it rides, you'll be super happy.
I can't compare it to your kite...but the 9 has a lot of power.

[sflinux]

It would be nice if BRM and/or users could post wind ranges that they use for each size. The rule of thumb is to drop 1 kite size down from your regular kite.

[cleepa]

It would be nice if BRM and/or users could post wind ranges that they use for each size. The rule of thumb is to drop 1 kite size down from your regular kite.

You probably want to drop more than 1 size. For the C1, at 180lbs on a surfboard, I start using each kite at:
8m - 17 or 18mph
6m - 23mph
5m - 27 or 28mph

I don't think it is a good idea for kite manufacturers to post wind ranges for a kite, as it depends so much on your board, riding preference and skills.