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Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

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herbert
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Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby herbert » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:12 am

Last year I used the J-bar slider on my harness sometimes. This year I started using a Boardriding Maui control system kite bar, which I used with all my kites (BRM, RRD, Naish). Not using a chicken loop, I didn't need the spreader bar hook (on my regular spreader bar, not J-bar), so I cut it off and connected the BRM CS setup directly to the spreader bar. What I found is that the pull from the center lines now comes from a point 2 1/2 inches closer to my body. So, when the kite is directly to my side, the distance from the center of rotation (of my torso) to the point of pull, has reduced from 6 1/2 inches to 4 inches. Since that is effectively a lever, shortening that lever by so much has a profound effect on reducing the torque on my harness when the kite is to the side.

What it feels like is that I can go toeside or walk up the beach with the kite to the side and it's just like when I am using a sliding setup (way reduced twisting feeling). However, I get this benefit without what I felt were disadvantages of whatever sliding system I used....those disadvantages being: the actual moments the sliding occurs when riding, and the fact that most sliding setups put the fully sheeted in bar position even further away from you.

Recently I bought a Ride Engine custom harness with the optional composite laminate spreader bar. I comes with a slider rope to which you can attach a chicken loop. Or to which you can attach a quick release shackle to which you attach a chicken loop or any setup like mine without a chicken loop. The slider worked just fine. But I much preferred the same advantages I had with the BRM setup pulling from way close in. If I tied it in a fixed way to the slider rope it still pulled point from a point 1 1/2 inches further out than I wanted. Still better than a hook, but not ideal. So I modified the Ride Engine spreader bar (copied the idea from a smart friend).

I drilled a hole in the center of the spreader bar and smoothed the edges. I passed a line through the hole and knotted it in back. I put knots out front to attach the BRM CS quick release setup. Even though the speader bar seems real strong, I worried that the stress from the single point of traction in the center would crack the spreader bar. So I added some layers of unidirectional carbon fiber across the face. On the back I layered strips above and below the center hole (so the retaining knot in back is a little recessed and not fully protruding). It is so stiff and seems so strong that I fully expect myself to break in half before the spreader bar gives way. I cut holes in the velcro canvas wrap that holds the spreader bar to the pad for the line to pass through.

I took one picture (shown last) to show how, when pulling from the side, the center pull from the BRM CS is pulling in the same line as the with the slider to the side. And, it feels the same in use to me, without having to deal with the sliding. For me, the whole thing is wildly simple and works great. I imagine it would work with any of the homemade bar setups without chicken loops people are using.

Most of all, if you are not riding unhooked, I recommend trying some sort of setup in which the pull is directly from the spreader bar, rather than from a spreader bar hook.
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MMac22
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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby MMac22 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:42 am

That is brilliant. Looks like it eliminates the friction and wear issues of the sliding systems & is much simpler. Could be the way of the future :thumb:

Do-it
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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby Do-it » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:10 am

Let me know if I'm understanding correctly.... You spent 500 bucks on a harness you had to reinforce and modify? I sure hope it's not the way of the future.

herbert
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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby herbert » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:52 am

Do-it wrote:Let me know if I'm understanding correctly.... You spent 500 bucks on a harness you had to reinforce and modify? I sure hope it's not the way of the future.

I would have to modify any harness to work the way I want it. I did not have to reinforce it, I chose to reinforce it because of how I modified it, I weakened the center by drilling through there and then stress it more by pulling directly from that point. The harness works great out of the box and needs no reinforcement or modification. I just choose to do stuff like that.

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dyyylan
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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby dyyylan » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:01 am

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is

loco4viento
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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby loco4viento » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:05 am

Looks like the cheap shot forum is alive and well.

Thanks for sharing Herbert. Nice job and creativity.

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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby SalmonSlayer » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:14 am

loco4viento wrote:Looks like the cheap shot forum is alive and well.

Thanks for sharing Herbert. Nice job and creativity.
No kidding, but then there were naysayers all throughout history. Why should we expect this crowd to b e any different?

I always appreciate post where rider are questioning what is spoon fed to us by kite manufacturers.

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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby GregK » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:47 am

loco4viento wrote: Thanks for sharing Herbert. Nice job and creativity.
2nd that - very interesting that eliminating the moment from the spreader bar hook felt about the same as a sliding spreader bar - would like to know if others who try this also agree with this observation.

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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby ciscokitesurfer » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:02 am

Kite surfing since the beginning was build by people who think outside of the box. With that out of the way your posting is very interesting. in the future if is possible can you video the idea in action cheers

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Re: Dropping the hook & slider, BRM bar and Ride Engine mod.

Postby Kevin1282 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:17 am

Excellent post here and also your other that is just reviewing the Ride Engine harness.

1. Based of this and your harness review I just place my order for a Ride Engine harness with custom fit back plate.
2. I ride BRM kites (no affiliations at all) and will be making this mod or some variation as well. Thank you for the inspiration and outline of what you did.
2a. Did you consider different mods to achieve this? And if so what ruled them out?
3. I will, and hope anybody else who does something like this mod, will be adding backup lines from the BRM quick release set-up to the side webbing loops of the harness as a just in case if the carbon spreader bar fails due to point loading from the mod.
4. To the peanut gallery post earlier. Innovation is all about being willing to break something.

Thanks and happy kiting. A video of your set-up in action would be really cool if you have the time and ability. Cheers


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