Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm?

Forum for kitesurfers
ChickenTikka
Frequent Poster
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:29 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Thailand
Bol, Croatia
Mui. Ne Vietnam
Tarifa
Leucate
Gear: Looking to change up!
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Fontainebleau, France
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby ChickenTikka » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:33 am

Eurus wrote:
ChickenTikka wrote:Personally, I think kite-schools are a tourist rip-off.
You are wrong in so many ways. There are unethical people who run all types of businesses. No one I know in the kiting industry who are instructors are unethical. I know and have met kite instructors all over the world and there is only 1 I have met (who will remain unnamed) that I thought was a poor instructor. He wasn't unethical. He was just a very poor instructor.

There are so many idiot kooks getting into this sport that without kite instructors we would have no place to ride because the idiot kooks would have all of our public spots shut down. Anyone who thinks like you is exactly the idiot kook mentality I am referring to. Someone who thinks they can just hop into this sport without any legitimate instruction. And having your kite buddies give instruction doesn't count.

This sport is dangerous to a beginner.

This sport is dangerous to a pro.

I might be able to throw a football pretty good but it sure would be nice to have Tom Brady give me some lessons and guidance.

I might be able to swing a golf club ok but it sure would be nice to have Tiger Woods teach me how to rip it 300 yards down the middle.

By the way...both Tom Brady and Tiger Woods have coaches who work with them on being better and they are both elite athletes. But you somehow think kiting is exempt from instruction?

It's funny how people who get into this sport somehow think they can pick it up without any instruction. These are the same idiot kooks who hot launch their kite into a tree or get drug through a parking lot into a parked car. These are the same idiot kooks who pop their kite by tomahawking it into the water because they are too stupid to sheet out. These are the same idiot kooks who lose their board because they are too stupid to learn how to body drag correctly.

Get off your high horse thinking kite instruction is a tourist trap. Like I said...there are unethical people in all types of businesses.
Eurus you make a few good points that I agree with:

1) Tom Brady and Tiger Woods do have coaches. I have nothing against people having kite coaches. Hell, I'd pay Hadlow money to kite with me and give me pointers. Just probably not enough to make it worth his while. Nothing wrong with having a coach. Not a requirement though.

2) Unethical/Lazy/Incompetent - I'm using them interchangeably. The bottom line is they are "not good" sometimes for whatever reason and that there is frequently a principal/agent problem there.

3) I agree with you about reigning in the idiots and giving them a safer way to learn to kite. But I personally believe that does not need to be some fancy pro-coach or even an IKO certified teenager who started kiting six months ago (as is often the case in a lot of schools). It could be, but it needn't be.

4) I mentioned in my post that they deal with the local territorial issues. I would say that schools help to establish norms and rules just as you said so that public/crowded spots don't get shut down as they employ locals and therefore create a pro-kiting lobby wherever they operate. Another fine service they provide. God bless you kite schools for this. Still doesn't make 700 dollars in lessons a requirement for a beginner kiter.

Driving is dangerous for a pro and dangerous for a beginner too. My dad taught me how to drive. He'd been doing it for 40 years by the time I started. I think that's good enough. I don't see the guy at the driving school caring nearly as much about my driving as my father would? Especially since I'm his son and it's his car at risk. Driving school guys are generally just going through the motions. It's a job. I don't see most kiting instructors as being that dissimilar from a driving school instructor in that regard. My dad has no formal training, or certificate but the best guy to teach me how to drive.

Our friend in the other thread has a hubby who can watch her and make sure she doesn't end up in a tree or dragged across a parking lot.

I love kite schools - but not because they are necessary to learn or a better way to learn to kite. I love them because they provide a service to us as community (tangibly and intangibly), subsidized by wealthy tourists keen to tell their friends that they tried Kitesurfing on their holiday. So if they are a tourist rip off in order to be that for us, God Bless Them!

User avatar
randycasburn
Frequent Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:09 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Lee Side, Ft. Walton Beach, FL
Destin Pass
Beasley Park
Big Sabine
Favorite Beaches: Lee Side Park, Ft. Walton Beach
Beasley Park, Ft. Walton Beach
OBX Sound side
Kailua, Oahu
Kahanamoku Beach Honolulu, Oahu
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Flitt 17
Ocean Rodeo Flite 12
Ocean Rodeo Flite 8
Ocean Rodeo Maco 140
Progressive Phish 146
Ocean Rodeo Origin Light 159
Ocean Rodeo Duke
Brand Affiliation: Ocean Rodeo
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby randycasburn » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:15 am

I took lessons. I appreciated the exposure to the safety stuff that I had no clue about. It built my confidence more quickly than discovering this on my own. So I've progressed pretty well pretty quickly. The $$ were well spent in my estimation - and I created some great friendships along the way.

This sport is about confidence - not time. For some highly skilled athletes confidence comes very quickly with experience. Others need more time or to be helped building their confidence.

The question asked and answered much too frequently is "how long have you been kiting". Don't ask that question. Ask how many sessions a person has. I once heard an instructor answer the question about time with "about three years". I immediately asked how many sessions he thought he had during those three years...eventual answer was "about 6". I had more experience in my first 3 weeks than he (as an instructor) had acquired within three years. That person is still teaching as far as I know. :-?

ChickenTikka
Frequent Poster
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:29 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Thailand
Bol, Croatia
Mui. Ne Vietnam
Tarifa
Leucate
Gear: Looking to change up!
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Fontainebleau, France
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby ChickenTikka » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:32 am

Randy's experience makes a good point:

There are a lot of operations (especially outside the US where you can't get sued for messing up as easily) where schools hire people with no real experience who are willing to take a smaller cut of the fees.

Kite instructing is one of the few decently paid jobs in places like Thailand, Vietnam, Sri Lanka etc where any foreigner/local can just so show up and make a decent living wage, even if they do not have the right to work or any credentials, to effectively subsidize or extend their vacation. A lot of the Russian run schools in these areas operate this way. More power to them.

I remember one instructor in Mui Ne asked if he could use my board as he did not have his own yet.

User avatar
Kamikuza
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6143
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Local Beach: Sabae Beach
Favorite Beaches: Ol' Stinky
Gear: This, that, the other
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:48 am

Kinda with the Tikka on this. There are good guys and bad guys. I've seen instructors who've passed the teaching course but can barely go upwind; others who shred but are utterly unsuited to any job involving interacting with actual, living people. I don't have a problem with the intinerant nature of it - lots of "real" jobs are the same...

But then, it's a dangerous sport (you're kidding yourself if you think it's not) and for the good of us all, it should be kept in line. Cue RichardM...

Me, I came from DIY stunt kites, to power kites and land boarding, then a half dozen lessons which were mostly just hand holding (and lifts back upwind) once I got the first day down.

Jbrook
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 993
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:39 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby Jbrook » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:36 pm

For me kiting has a little different aspect than other sports. Not every day wind is same and or rideable and as your knowledge and confidence grows so does your kiting skill. It is not golf or tennis where every day you can play almost. Some days the wind is bad and you must sit out and this is where I think alot of people make mistakes and get hurt and this is where it is invaluable to be able to know your limits and your safety equipment quick releases and quick thinking that is usually learned or you begin to learn these skills when taking your lessons.

L0KI
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2817
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:17 am
Kiting since: 1812
Gear: .
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby L0KI » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:59 pm

No paid lessons, I learned from a local here (there were only two at the time).
Learned to kite landboard first and went in the water later.
I've never witnessed a paid instructor doing a great job, so I have little faith in what they are doing for a number of reasons.
Also, I've read so many accounts of people getting very little for their money, like Lisah.
I assume if somebody wants to take up kiteboarding, that there is often someplace they have in mind that they can kite regularly, that is local, or why would they bother.
In turn, I assume that means there are other kiters who are out kiting locally.
So, I think it's best to make a friend of one of the most experienced in the local crew and learn from them (a couple cases of beer will go a long way with most local crews).
I found one of two people locally who kiteboarded and called the guy up and told him I wanted to learn and that was that.
One of the benefits was, that here was no pressure on either side that was attached to time or money, which I think is good when you are taking up a sport that can drown you, or cave your skull in.
Of course when I learned, kites were far harder to fly (manage) and there was zero safety to any of the gear.
Boy I flew some shite kites in the first year or so. :lol:

eabmoto
Rare Poster
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Gear: BWS kites
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby eabmoto » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:22 pm

I paid $350 for four hours of Rigging, breaking down, self rescue, and a little flying experience. All necessary things to be taught in a lesson, but I could have learned that at the beach and you tube. I then went out on my own and learned to kite. With a healthy respect for what can happen and a helpful kite community, you're fine without lessons. Some people are way better off with lessons, but it's not a crazy idea to learn on your own. I tell everybody interested that they need lessons though.

User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 39123
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 162 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby Toby » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:46 pm

agree, there are good and bad instructors, and also for not that much money.

In Brazil i see man instructors giving lessons, and most do fine.

Still see some unbelievable stuff...those wannabe instructors who make people get injured by flying a bigger kite with normal line length on the beach, where they get injured. They don't care, made their money, next student please. Really bad, and without any respect towards other people's safety and that they f*** up this great sport for them. Because most won't try again after getting injured.

e.g.: I am at the Tabuba lagoon...perfect lagoon to learn, hip deep. And this stupid instructors lets his student fly the kite on land, just next to the water, and empty lagoon with lots of space. Student yanks the kite and hits the beach hard. In the water it was absolutely no problem...

Just sad.

User avatar
dyyylan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:45 pm
Kiting since: 1901
Gear: N/A
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby dyyylan » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:19 am

I took lessons, I did the following:

- $230 - Bought and flew a trainer kite for about 2 weeks on my own
- $300 2-hour lesson learning how to rig and fly a real kite, how to relaunch, and did some heel-skidding on the beach being pulled by the kite
- $200 2-hour body dragging with a kook who didn't explain anything to me and just rode circles around me while i struggled to keep the kite out of the water.
- $150 2-hour with the first instructor again, got up and riding kinda

learned the rest on my own with tips from friends i met on the beach. I probably would have been fine with 2 lessons if I hadn't wasted money on that 2nd one. the instructor really matters.

I think one lesson is absolutely essential, it doesn't need to be at a kite school but it needs to be with someone who really wants to help you learn. Second lesson is really helpful to get up on the board, because this is the most difficult part of learning to kite, imo.

fernmanus
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1386
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:53 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Lessons. Lisah's post got me thinking. How many took'm

Postby fernmanus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:47 am

I think lessons are a good idea for most people. I really hate seeing newbies showing up with a decade old 16m C kite that they bought on eBay at my beach on a 25 knot day. It also isn't much fun rescuing an idiot that will not fork out the bucks for lessons, but shows up at the beach in an expensive sports car and all new gear. I would not care, but it only takes one reckless person to shutdown a launch or collide their kite with yours. Sure, lessons do not prevent all incidents, but at least people can learn the basics before handling a large traction kite. If you are reading this thread and you are too arrogant, money-strapped, or unwilling to take a lesson, do us all a favor and start on a trainer. Research the safety issues and save your neck and possibly someone else's.

A newbie that is serious about the sport would be wise to do some research on where are the best places to learn. Some of the best destination places to kite are NOT the best places to learn.

Personally, I would be just fine if this sport went the way of windsurfing. Fewer riders on the water is okay by me.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: badgb21, Bing [Bot], Exal and 13 guests

cron