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RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

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gpvirzi
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RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby gpvirzi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:43 pm

I would like to make my Slingshot RPM make smaller kiteloops. Not as big and powerful.
It seems to me that if I increase the bar pressure setting on the back lines attachment to the kite, that would also make the kiteloops more pivotal.
Is this correct?
Thank you.
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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby Starsky » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:56 pm

I don't think so. Could be wrong and interested on what answers you get, but I think that having the steering lines on the least bar pressure setting and really cranking the bar will give the tightest least powerful loops.

Highest bar pressure setting is also the slowest turning setting.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby gpvirzi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:24 pm

Thank you for your reply.

It seems to me that if I move the back lines away from the trailing edge, more towards the front of the kite, I will effectively be pulling more of the kite to the one side when performing a loop. It would be like if I was using a longer bar.

I am actually trying to prove something that I have noticed. I decreased the bar pressure on my RPM and found that my kiteloops got out of control huge. The RPM will never do pivotal turns and I like that, but huge kiteloops can be a problem cause of the amount of power they deliver.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby edt » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:43 pm

the further away from the leading edge you move the back lines, the less the bar pressure and the quicker the kite turns and the less powerful the kite loops are. It's like starsky said "Highest bar pressure setting is also the slowest turning setting." There is something to be said for the theory that if you have higher bar pressure you have a bigger lever arm (like you said the equivalent of a larger bar) and if you are able to actually "pin" the bar (that is bring it all the way to vertical with one side all the way in and one side all the way out) that maybe the high bar pressure settings would loop it faster but this does not happen in practice at least when I have tried it. In practice I am pretty sure you want the fastest turning kite, the lightest bar pressure that will give you the calmest loops. Starsky don't you have some kites with adjustable leaders on the kite? I like to move my 7m fuel lines away from the trailing edge to make it slower and the loops bigger so I get a bigger yank but when I take my 11m fuel out I like to move them all the way in the back to quicken the loops.

I guess it's possible you will see differences in kite performance from what I have seen with my kites. I don't actually have a slingshot RPM to try it on.

any kite can do pivot turns if you yank on it hard enough. On high bar pressure kites you will always need both hands to get a pivot turn. so hard to pin the bar down with just one hand if the bar pressure is high. Make sure you are using both hands and "fishpole" the bar. That will let you pin the bar. Pinning the bar is a lot more important than moving the rear leaders around if you want a tight loop.

As for low bar pressure kiteloops being huge that might have to do with where you are initiating the loop with the different bar pressures, the light bar pressure might be letting you loop earlier and give you a better yank the timing of the loop makes a huge difference here and is more likely to be the reason for the huge loops than a different lever arm.

Go ahead and try both settings you'll figure out which you prefer.
Last edited by edt on Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:00 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby dyyylan » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:50 pm

When it says "bar feedback" that doesn't mean the kite will turn faster, it just means you'll feel more of the kite through the bar, it's very similar to bar pressure. You'll be able to tell where it is easier because of how much heavier it feels.

In the picture you posted, the turning speed scale would be slowest to fastest, left to right.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby gpvirzi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:20 pm

thanks again.

There is something that I am not getting.

Please see attached picture. You can see that if I move the backlines further to the front of the kite, the kite should turn faster since the pull will yank the kite harder to the side?.

I hope I am explaining my self ok.

Thanks.
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kite1.jpg

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby edt » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:38 pm

yes gpvirzi that is correct in theory. In real life it doesn't seem to work that way. Why? Not exactly sure, it takes time to pull the bar all the way in and with the leaders on the harder setting it takes a little bit longer, maybe that's why it doesn't work, or maybe it has to do with how the shape of the kite or maybe the angle of the center of pull, I really don't know.

so yeah you are absolutely correct in theory you are right but real life it doesn't seem to work that way. you want the leaders all the way at the end.

Just my own opinion, you might find it works differently for your kite.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby dyyylan » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:51 pm

pulling one side of the kite doesn't do anything, when you turn the kite you're pulling the wingtip slightly so the whole thing rotates and starts to fly in a different direction. if you kept moving the rear line closer to the center of the leading edge, you probably wouldnt be able to get it away from the edge of the window at all

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby edt » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:52 pm

dyyylan wrote:pulling one side of the kite doesn't do anything, when you turn the kite you're pulling the wingtip slightly so the whole thing rotates and starts to fly in a different direction. if you kept moving the rear line closer to the center of the leading edge, you probably wouldnt be able to get it away from the edge of the window at all

dont really follow your explanation dyylan.

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Re: RPM Bar pressure and kiteloops.

Postby Eurus » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:08 pm

gpvirzi wrote:thanks again.

There is something that I am not getting.

Please see attached picture. You can see that if I move the backlines further to the front of the kite, the kite should turn faster since the pull will yank the kite harder to the side?.

I hope I am explaining my self ok.

Thanks.
In your picture the 2nd image which shows the lines connected on the tips of the wings will turn the kite much faster. The reason has to do with basic physics. It you attached two pull points to an arch (i.e. kite) then the further away the two pull points are the more control you have across the span of the arc. Think of it this way. If you were able to connect the lines near the center but only 2 feet apart your pull points on the kite would be separated by 24 inches. That would be your range of control. So you would only be controlling 24" of a 15 foot span. That obviously wouldn't work. Now move those pull points all the way out to the tips of the wings and you are now controlling 100% of the span of 15 feet. Hence quicker turn speeds and less bar pressure.

Image
Last edited by Eurus on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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