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Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

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Bille
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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby Bille » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:29 am

revhed wrote: ...
No, never!
Launching or landing without a hand on the quick release fully prepaired to activate can never be the safest way.
I can and will defend this statement with deaths as proof for not doing so, sorry to be so blunt but it is like this!
R H
I'm with Ya on This one !! :thumb:





Bille
Last edited by Bille on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby DrLightWind » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:52 pm

A 2:15 watch the relaunch technique which is becoming easier and more popular in light wind.
The WindWing Rapture was the first one using the LEI reverse relaunch technique as I'm aware of :thumb:

DrLW


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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:52 pm

Nope, they were not....

Bruno Legaignoux had that dialed with the very first modern front line flying C kites back in 2001, the now Mythical Wipika Airblast !

My buddy Jan, one winter, reverse launching exactly as most of us still do today when kitesurfing on the water, if hydrofoiling or in lighter winds :thumb:



8) Peter

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby BWD » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:46 pm

Interesting topic.
I've used most of these techniques with a variety of kites.
Caution and care are important, but reverse and hot launches are good tools if used right.

I liked seeing the old airblast reverse launch, PF.
I guess that was with the reactive bridle?
It is interesting to see some different bridles continuing with the genetrix and the flysurfer cronix and boost.

My launching history, not that I recommend all these techniques as safe, some are NOT! :

wipika 6m (to the best I recall) :
assisted side launch,
water relaunch at side of window

Naish AR5 7.5m :
same

Slingshot 2005 Fuel 15m with 5 lines :
assisted side launch,
sanded wingtip solo side launch,
water relaunch at side of window +/- 5th line,
water relaunch from deep in window with 5th line,
drift launch with 5th line,
hot launch from water, 5th line assisted,
reverse launch from shallow water with 5th line (tried many times, only worked once!),
hot launch from beach, with lots of 5th line pulled in to flatten kite (still dangerous! Don't do it...)

those are listed roughly from easy/safe to dangerous or difficult.
I never got around to hooking up the rear ATL bridle which would have permitted reverse relaunching the '05 fuel, by then I got a 09 fuel...

2009 and 2011 fuels :
did everything the '05 did but better, and side or reversed better, without the fifth line.

2011 ozone c4 13m :
assisted side launch
sanded or weighted tip side launch
drag launch
tethered launch
drift launch
side relaunch from water
reverse relaunch from water
hot launch from water
hot launch from beach (danger!)

2013 BRM cloud 17m C1 and 7m C2:
assisted side launch
drag launch
tethered launch
hot launch
reverse launch
reverse water relaunch
side water relaunch

I have to say having a 5 line C kite taught me more about how to keep a kite in the air and how to relaunch it than anything else. But I don't miss that extra line.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby Frank82 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:25 pm

I only hot launch when the wind is really light, otherwise it's just taking risk without any gain.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby revhed » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:44 pm

Peter_Frank wrote: the now Mythical Wipika Airblast !
Sorry way off topic but feeling nostalgic.
4.9,6.3,8.4 Thanks for the memories, projected SAs, sad sometimes I flew mine to death, sure had good times with em.
RH

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby marina » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:43 pm

Why hot launch if you don't have to? It's something I just don't get. Like when someone (kiter) offers help and people insist on self launching/landing. Doesn't it make sense to err on the side of safety?

The only time I think hot launching is appropriate is in super light winds when you can't normally self launch your kite. We have been doing this in San Diego during our light wind testing. Sunday it was only blowing 2-5 on the beach (okay maybe 7mph but could barely feel a breeze and would lull to zero) but winds starting at about 20 meters were 7-11/12mph... Consequences not so bad when things go wrong in light winds unless you're doing in tight launch/land area.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby tomatkins » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:50 pm

Thanks for all the comments and reflections on this type of launch technique. Of course, it goes without saying to always learn something new in light wind, away from a crowd, etc.

I should make one correction...that is, the rider is not exactly “straight upwind” from the kite when he performs the maneuver. He is more like 15 to 20 degrees off to the side of “straight upwind”, and always is located to the side of the kite AWAY from the prevalent wind direction. Another observation of the technique shows that the air fills the canopy in very much the same way as the “side launch” (“drag self launch”), but happens much faster when the kite is more directly down wind. That is to say that the wind blows over the wingtip which is located most upwind, and passes down and into the more distant wingtip end of the kite... filling the more distant (from the rider) half of the kite, first, and causing the kite to rock up onto the more distant wing tip area of the kite. When the more distant half of the kite canopy fills up with enough air, then, the kite rapidly pivots up into the “hot launch” position and shoots up. This is kind of what happens, if the rider messes up a drag self launch, and the kite refuses to leave the ground, on the side of the wind window... which results in the kite swinging way far into the downwind position, before it gets enough wind into the canopy to lift it into the sky... this scenario happens a lot when a beginner self-launcher is a little bit too tentative in pulling the more distant rear line... before he learns to be agressive in getting the kite up onto its wingtip.

So, this technique may be viewed by some as a quicker and more efficient way to get the kite up into the sky... with less chance of it swinging on an arc and thereby dragging the fabric on the sand.

Hope this clarifies the type of self launch that I am referring to... but I would still like to have someone give better illustration and analysis of the technique... step by step.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby jeromeL » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:35 pm

I have tested self launch last Saturday on my 9m with 25 - 30 knots wind.

I started downwind of the kite.
Put tension and walked sideways, one hand on bar, one hand on quick release.
At 90 degree i started pulling the kite until the wingtip caught some wind.
If you keep walking away from kite, it will turn slowly and at some point the kite goes on its side, then you can launch it from the side of the window safely.

Second attempt I did the same thing. That time the kite didn't go on it side but slowly slid downwind until it was straight downwind, in the position of a water relaunch.
I figured i would just do a normal water relaunch on land but the kite didn't slide to the side of the window instead it shot up straight up through the window.
Fortunately, I the kite was depowered and my body position was correct so my feet slid 30 feet downwind in the sand until kite reached 12.
Now if I fail to launch kite from the side it is best to start over.

Usually I ask for someone to help me launch but that day people showed up late.
I also have one of those sand anchor thing but i left it home that day.

I keep learning from my mistake, hopefully I don't get hurt doing so.

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Re: Straight Downwind 'Self Hot Launch" Technique?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:13 pm

marina wrote:Why hot launch if you don't have to? It's something I just don't get. Like when someone (kiter) offers help and people insist on self launching/landing. Doesn't it make sense to err on the side of safety?

The only time I think hot launching is appropriate is in super light winds when you can't normally self launch your kite. We have been doing this in San Diego during our light wind testing. Sunday it was only blowing 2-5 on the beach (okay maybe 7mph but could barely feel a breeze and would lull to zero) but winds starting at about 20 meters were 7-11/12mph... Consequences not so bad when things go wrong in light winds unless you're doing in tight launch/land area.
That shows how different we are :D

I am one of those usually saying no thanks, if some wants to launch me, in "normal" winds.

As I find self launching (stake method) much safer - if anything goes wrong, YOU are not connected to the kite, and it is only the gear that might get wasted, and not your life that is on risk....
Furthermore, you have to be able to get ashore and land yourself too, so important to know that stake position is good :thumb:
When self launching you can take all the time that you want, to ensure lines and bridles and everything is right, so much lower risk.
Also, you dont waste other riders time - as they are usually busy rigging too, when the wind and waves suddenly kicks in and you are on your way out :naughty:

So when riding waves, it is most normal (around here) that you launch/land yourself, even if others are around - thats how we all do it.
As said, if someone else happens to stand right next to your kite, yes he/she might launch the kite or take it down - otherwise not, and noone will expect you to launch/land their kite either (except newbees but they are not out in the waves...)

In light wind, you HAVE to launch dead downwind, no other way - as you say Marina.

And when you Hydrofoil a lot, you will also learn to hot launch a lot :rollgrin:

8) Peter


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