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Just another death loop

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marlboroughman
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Re: Just another death loop

Postby marlboroughman » Mon May 11, 2015 9:44 pm

The only reason I piss you off that much is because I am that right.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby alamos_kiter » Mon May 11, 2015 10:16 pm

Peter_Frank wrote: ...The initial problem, WHAT causes the kite to turn, must be either a linekink, or a line over a wingtip.
The initial problem was, he was holding his bar the wrong way. He had RED on the RIGHT.
Last edited by alamos_kiter on Mon May 11, 2015 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Starsky » Mon May 11, 2015 10:21 pm

You piss me off because I sincerely believe that what you teach is unsafe. I know you have it all rationalized in your head that you are actually more diligent, call it like it truly is, and are over all safer than what EVERYBODY else is teaching, but that is precisely the problem. You patently refuse to listen or recognize any error in your way of doing things even when they are painstakingly spelled out in a manner you have no reasonable answers to. As to your being an asshat, that doesn't really piss me off. I knew that well before I ever engaged you on this forum. Many others know it too. You spell it out ad nauseam and teasing it out of you time and time again is really the best way of discrediting you to the point it really doesn't matter what else you say.

Your last post is a case in point. Just as predicted, you said nothing as to why anything I have said is unsafe, because it simply isn't. This isn't a question of taste. Its a question of logic. It is physically quite easy to launch a kite unhooked and to do so puts the rider in the absolute least amount of danger. Show me I'm wrong.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby marlboroughman » Mon May 11, 2015 11:28 pm

Starsky wrote: Show me I'm wrong.
I can call you #1 and refer to myself as #2 if it makes you feel better as long as I don't have to agree with you. I honestly do not. I am trying to show anything or off.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Tue May 12, 2015 12:30 am

Show me I'm wrong
I think you are wrong. So does every kite school as they do not teach unhooked launching. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done and if that is the method that you are happy with then stick with it, certainly you are erring on the side of caution with anything but a perfect launch having a high probability of failing.

But launching with one hand on the bar severely limits your steering ability, being unhooked you do not have your body weight to use against the kite for better control (a solid stance when hooked in launching will promote better control when kite surging etc) even with high depower kites there is still a high possibility if you not being able to hold the CL in decent winds with one hand and finally if a gust pulls the CL and you have to extend your arm then the other arm will power the kite up.

Unhooked launching is safer myth - BUSTED!!

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby sarc » Tue May 12, 2015 12:56 am

JGTR wrote:
vkngktr wrote:Do NOT hook in when self launching your kite!
In reality this is impractical and not a good idea, you will have little or no control of sheeting and if a gust hits or the kite pulls there is a good chance that you will not let go.

Self launching is very safe if you do it properly, the guy in that video did not hence he got into trouble.
NOT TRUE!
I got a deathloop self launching hooked in what I thought were safe conditions (15 years kiting). I bruised my ribs and it hurt like HELL for 3 weeks (no kiting for 5 weeks).

Then I talked to a friend kiting instructor. He told me to just hold the chicken loop, forget the bar, and take 4 steps back to self launch. And damn it works like a charm every time! The kite launches and just sits there fully depowered. I can't believe in so many years of kiting I always thought (wrongly) that it would not work. I don't think I ever saw a launch video explaining this...

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby Starsky » Tue May 12, 2015 1:02 am

If you want to claim myth busting, you actually have to go out and try it before you voice an opinion. I won't claim it is for everyone. I fully agree and previously stated that its not appropriate for instruction to novices who are no where near proficient enough to reliably fly kites one handed. For those of you with the experience and skills, here are a few pointers for your testing.

It's actually quite easy to do, and only marginally different from self launching hooked in. If you can't do that reliably, you might not be a good candidate for this method. Once you're decent at it, its like any skill and you rarely if ever lose the chicken loop and end up having to reset. Obviously it is expected that you have the skill and knowledge to position yourself properly with respect to the kite. The way it works WRT gusts is actually the opposite of what JGTR stated. You have excellent control of elevating the kite with the one hand on the bar, just as you do riding one handed. Once the kite is off the ground if it does surge, you let go of the bar and it flies forward to the new edge of the window fully depowered while you hold the chicken loop. It usually doesn't even touch the ground before you can easily re claim the bar. If it does, it will park on a wingtip and wait for you to reclaim the bar. In the even that a gust is so violent it rips the CL from your hand..... really really really rare, well, thats the whole reason for doing it in the first place. Try it in regular conditions at a relatively safe launch and you will find it quite easy.

I look forward to hearing back from you.
Last edited by Starsky on Tue May 12, 2015 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby BWD » Tue May 12, 2015 1:27 am

Then I talked to a friend kiting instructor. He told me to just hold the chicken loop, forget the bar, and take 4 steps back to self launch. And damn it works like a charm every time! The kite launches and just sits there fully depowered. I can't believe in so many years of kiting I always thought (wrongly) that it would not work. I don't think I ever saw a launch video explaining this...
True but you need to connect the dots.
The devil is in the details.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby laz » Tue May 12, 2015 3:28 am

No reputable instructer or school teaches to launch unhooked. That in and of itself shows the majority of professionals think you are wrong.

The best solution is simply testing your safety systems, being comfortable with how your bar works and having a kite knife as a backup.

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Re: Just another death loop

Postby JGTR » Tue May 12, 2015 4:00 am

sarc wrote:
JGTR wrote:
vkngktr wrote:Do NOT hook in when self launching your kite!
In reality this is impractical and not a good idea, you will have little or no control of sheeting and if a gust hits or the kite pulls there is a good chance that you will not let go.

Self launching is very safe if you do it properly, the guy in that video did not hence he got into trouble.
NOT TRUE!
I got a deathloop self launching hooked in what I thought were safe conditions (15 years kiting). I bruised my ribs and it hurt like HELL for 3 weeks (no kiting for 5 weeks).

Then I talked to a friend kiting instructor. He told me to just hold the chicken loop, forget the bar, and take 4 steps back to self launch. And damn it works like a charm every time! The kite launches and just sits there fully depowered. I can't believe in so many years of kiting I always thought (wrongly) that it would not work. I don't think I ever saw a launch video explaining this...
OMG!
You found the only instructor in the world to teach unhooked launching just to prove me wrong. Ok let me rephrase....apart from one instructor no schools teach unhooked launching.


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