2013 Evo 7,9,12 -> 2015 Dice 7,9,12? +general Dice questions

[przemj]

Hi!

I'm 79kg, riding in boots or strapless waveboard. Winds from 12-13 kts to 35 kts (Baltic + Fuerte ).
Currently I own the 7,9,12 quiver of 2013 Evos (before 2014 total redesign) which beautifully covers all the conditions that I get in these areas. As I absolutely don't have any possibility to test the Dice I have several questions:

1. I'm thinking about switching to 2015 Dices. If I want to have an equivalent of my Evo quiver, should I go with 7m,9m,12m or 7/8m,10m,13m?

2. This year I made some progress in unhooked wakestyle (s-bend, working on blinds, bellair and thinking about HPs) and started doing some strapless waveriding on a directional board. Do you think that it's worth to switch? Is the 2015 Dice drifting so much better than on 2013 Evo (I do feel that in surf Evo is stalling and I work it hard to prevent this, but it's not a pleasure)? On the other hand: is slack after pop and general wakestyle performance so much better than on 2013 Evo?

3. Westozzy wrote that 2015 Dice lost 2014's drifting abilities. Is that true?

4. ... or should I wait for Dice 2016 - any hints what will change? I know it's a lame excuse but I HATE the 2016's new looks...

What I would like to achieve by switching to Dice are significant improvements on the wave/wakestyle front without switching to 5 lines setup. I really don't like the 5 line setups - tried it for a year and it was more problems than gains...

It's my really really hard earn money so I don't want to be disappointed...

Please advise

[Strekke]

I haven't ridden the Evo's but love my 2015 dices. I rode Bandits (6th generation) before, and tested a bunch of 2015 kites before switching to the dices. On my twintip, the dices are great: good jumping, stable, predictable, and just nice and smooth. Don't ride unhooked, but apparently it's got a nice pop-n-slack too. Also love to loop them around, great stable power delivery. The first time I took my 9m out strapless in the waves, I was truly blown away: great upwind ability, and just the best drift I had ever experienced (never tried an actual wavekite though). Overshot the kite a few times on the wave when it was on the edge of the window and was like "oh shit now I've done it", thinking it would crash, but even on slack lines at the edge of the window it just drifted back without falling out of the sky, just amazing. Overall great upwind too once you get going.

I weigh 76 kgs and currently have a 12m and a 9m. 12m gets me going quite early on my surfboard, like 13/14 kts I would say, comfortably riding upwind without much effort. If you would add something like a nugget or just wanted to ride and maybe just hold your ground, I'd say 11 kts as lowend. Sweetspot of the 12m on a TT is 16-18 knots, great jumps. 9m best session I've had on the surfboard in the waves was around 21 knots, and best TT session with nice jumps and loops was 24 kts - real sweetspot! I've held my 9m down up to 30 kts (depowerstrap pulled in about 2/3), but getting a 6m for anything more than 27-28kts, because the kites do like to be ridden fully powered and not trimmed down. One last thing I like about the dices is the settings you can change on the wingtips (hard or soft), they really make a difference. The "soft" setting makes the kite turn faster and reduces bar pressure. The "hard" setting gives more direct bar feedback + bar pressure, and less tight turning so more powerful loops. I prefer the soft setting.

I think you won't regret getting the dices, they're just awesome and I love em

[spacemonkey]

Go for it 7/9/12 !!!!

Dice is in my opinion one of the best kites out there!! Way better than your evo's for what you are doing. Evo is more of a freeride machine with more low end than dice.

tested 2014/2015 models...not much difference

[cor]

Just wait a few more days because the new dice is about to be released mid of August.

[Da Yoda]

Hi!

I'm 79kg, riding in boots or strapless waveboard. Winds from 12-13 kts to 35 kts (Baltic + Fuerte ).
Currently I own the 7,9,12 quiver of 2013 Evos (before 2014 total redesign) which beautifully covers all the conditions that I get in these areas. As I absolutely don't have any possibility to test the Dice I have several questions:

1. I'm thinking about switching to 2015 Dices. If I want to have an equivalent of my Evo quiver, should I go with 7m,9m,12m or 7/8m,10m,13m?

I fly the 2013 Evo 6m and 8m(the 8m get's 90% of the use, so I know this kite well). I've flown the Dice in the same sizes and and I can honestly say that you will need to size up 1m to keep the power about equivalent to the Evo. Get the Dice in 8,10, 13m and it will feel the most familiar to the Evos you've been flying.
It's true that the 2014 Dice was more an all-around kite that drifted nicely for surfing. The 2015 Dice is a bit closer to the Vegas in how it flies imo. You may want to hold out and see what's new for the 2016 model. I know a lot of ridders that miss the first generation feel and have either kept their 2014 model or have switched to something else.

[Dan-at-Duotone]

I agree with what everyone else is saying...

2013 was the last year of the Evo being the unhooked/hooked-in do-it-all kite. In 2014 it was completely redesigned as a more freeride kite. The reason for this change was because the open C shaped Dice seemed to do everything the Evo did, performance-wise, for unhooked riding, but it also had more range/depower and did way better in waves, so it basically made the old Evo design obsolete.

I would say without a doubt you'll find the 2015 Dice to be a step up from your Evos for wave riding. It'll have more range for hooked-in/onshore wave riding (2013 Evos had a lot of grunt that could pull you off the wave even if sheeted out) and it'll drift way better for unhooked/side/side-off wave riding. I read Westozzy's report that the 2015 Dice sacrificed some of the drifting ability of the 2014 and he definitely has more experience and more time on kites, and I believe that he's right, but for me I still find the 2015 Dice to drift really well, definitely better than 2013 Evo.

For freestyle/wakestyle the Dice will at least match the 2013 Evo for pop/slack. Raleys are plenty explosive and it has all the slack you'll need for getting your blind judges/basic passes In my opinion as a non-pro it may be easier than the Vegas for most wakestyle riders... The Vegas is the pro choice for ultimate slack, but I also find it less forgiving with your timing... It gives you a ton of pop/slack if you time it just right, but if you're off by a bit you get nothing and/or yarded. The Dice seems a little more accessible and gives plenty of pop to go big and plenty of slack to get a pass down, even if your timing isn't spot-on every time.

I also agree that you should probably consider sizing up 1m from 2013 Evos. The 2013 Evos were famously grunty. The 2015 Dice has more power than the 2014 Dice did, but still not the 2013 Evo level of power.

As far as waiting for 2016... All that I know is that it's a little more delta shaped to help light-wind relaunch and give a little more low-end, but I don't have any real user feedback and haven't gotten to ride one personally.

Hope this helps and feel free to PM me if you have other questions/issues.

-Dan

[Westozzy]

I said it has lost some of its drifting capabilities from 2014, but the 2014 was close to as most dedicated wave kites we've flown. the 2015 still has great drifting capabilities but something had to give, given its better low end and greater power delivery per size overall. it jumped better, held itlsef together much better at its high end in 2015. but the boys are still cranking in the waves on it, given it does everything else so well it's a small sacrifice unless you really want to just ride waves on a SB (there are always better kites for specialised riding). Much less delay and constant pull through the loops on the 2015.

Dan it right (as always) I have heard the 2016 dice has moved itself a little into the Neo category / spectrum. Nearly as powerful per size (delta qualities). Something we personally are not looking forward to but will make the kite far more accessible to most riders at all levels.

Time will tell. Personally given what you said above I'd try and nab a 2015 myself given the information I have,,,but maybe wait until some reports on the 2016 First come out as usual from down under.

[Do-it]

Dan- Since you guys have pretty much killed the vegas for non pro and non pro wannabees, What kite would you suggest for people that used the old vegas in waves and for freestyle? I'm guessing you are going to say the dice..... However, the dice can't have the directness that the "old" vegas had. All the vegas riders I have talked to are hoping the 2016 goes back to what made the kite famous. I think you'd be surprised at the amount of vegas riders that really don't give a shit about how slack the lines get ......Maybe, you could check the warehouse and look for some older model vegas' for me????

[Westozzy]

Do it, doesn't the new Vegas fly pretty similar if on the freeride settings using the non hadlow bar? No idea myself I rode it on the wakestyle settings....damn from that I would agree with you. The new dice apparently is moving a little more towards the delta based Neo...much more depth in the canopy as well...so I'm not so sure about the new dice to be honest for what you are asking for. Who knows?

[przemj]

Guys, thank you for all your opinions and logical argumentation!!!

Because I don't like the idea that 2016 moves towards delta shape (what's the idea behind yet another delta in the product range???) I just ordered a beautiful set of reddish 8 + 10 + 13 2015 Dices.

Last questions (I can still alter my order ):

1. Should I go with 22m and shorter bar + 2m extensions (if available?) for low winds or play safe with 24m? Will these 2m extensions alter the Y geometry so that it will not fly as good? Do these 2m make such a difference that this is worth all the trouble to go for the 22m?

2. If I go for a 22m lines with short bar, will shorter bar (49 cm vs 53cm) be ok for the huge 13m Dice or too short to loop it fast?

3. I'm worried that 13m will be a huge slow cow so I was battling to the end with the decision 12m vs 13m... But there were a lot of situations when it was 1-2kts too low for my 12m Evo, so 12m Dice would be dead then...