Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

What is the value of trainer kites? I don't get it.

Forum for kitesurfers
kiteontario
Medium Poster
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:02 am
Gear: Cabrinha, Slingshot, Nobile
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby kiteontario » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:55 pm

I remember the first time I tried flying a small trainer I crashed it several times. I'm glad I learned simple steering technique on a harmless trainer before hooking in to a large inflatable kite. I learned to understand the wind window and acquired knowledge of how to steer a kite. I practiced moving the kite slowly and also holding it in one spot in various parts of the window. Alternatively, if you live somewhere like Cape Hatteras where you can hang out in waist deep water with no waves, you or someone you're teaching could start out with a big kite and only risk being pulled over into the water if the kite crashes as opposed to being dragged a bit on a field or into a nearby fence or building.
Last edited by kiteontario on Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bille
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3438
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm
Local Beach: Lake Mohave
Gear: Ozone Edge
Brand Affiliation: Barz Optics
Jaybar Dynabar V7
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby Bille » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:56 pm

Faxie wrote:
Laughingman wrote:
Starsky wrote:If you are legitimately asking this question, you may be deficient in common sense!

....the one skill I am happy to see her develop is the instinct to let go of the bar when it gets the better of her. That one simple thing can make all the difference in a heartbeat.
Really good point Starsky!
+2
+ 3 --- :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I had Gobs of hours with a trainer, before ever flying a kite around water ; but
going 35-40-mph ,(with a buggy) on a dry-lake, with a 3-M 4-line kite, isn't exactly
what i'd call boring. You can get to where Ya actually feel where the kite is, without
looking at it.

Bille

SalmonSlayer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 584
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:48 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby SalmonSlayer » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:04 pm

I just started my 10 year old son on a 5m Waroo. I had it hooked into my harness and I was on my knees. He stood in front of me to either side and operated the kite. He needs one more session like that. Then he will put on a shorts harness and fly it with me holding on in shallow water. I think the four line experience was way more beneficial than a 2 line kite.

User avatar
cleepa
Frequent Poster
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 4:43 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby cleepa » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:25 pm

SalmonSlayer wrote:I think the four line experience was way more beneficial than a 2 line kite.
I agree with this. I used a 2 line trainer kite quite a bit before taking my lessons. It didn't take long to feel like I wasn't learning anything with it anymore. A 4-line trainer kite would have been much more useful. Learning about sheeting is a very important part of kiting. The most common cause of beginners crashing their kites I've seen is not being able to steer the kite properly because they have no back line tension.

User avatar
Starsky
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4374
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Ontario
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby Starsky » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:02 pm

Has been a while since I've had a solid rant.

There are plenty of intangibles that come naturally with trainer kites. When you take 4-5 hours of lessons, your in quality locations and wind. They shouldn't waste your money on anything less. But the world is full of crap conditions and locations. Your 4-5 hours with an instructor does nothing to teach you about the real world spectrum of experiences you can expect from kites, winds, and locations all of which you will have to face on your own. Flying a trainer 15 - 20 - 50 times in different places over a period of time teaches the variable nature of the wind window intuitively. It teaches the skills of kite recovery as well as location assessment. All of these are cursory in the time you spend with an instructor and much of it goes unmentioned let alone experienced. People that get the right amount of trainer time develop a healthy respect for things like lines and will never make the kind of simple but costly mistakes those that are new to kites often make. We see it time and time again, that the problem with beginners is that they don't really know how much they don't know. This is the kind of sport where over confidence can be your undoing. True respect for a kite doesn't come from talk, or a video, it is earned with experience. It's that respect that's invaluable when you start getting into the levels of stoke that can prompt poor decision making and risk assessment.

You can explain all you want what to do in a gust or a lull, or how different 20 knots is going to feel from 12, or a small kite compared to a big one, but having a wide range of experiences with a variety of harmless trainers will put all of that into experiential perspective. For sure you need to train on a 4 line kite before you are set free in the water, but that in no way makes 2 or 3 line kites any less important.

@ Salmon. You can strap your son into whatever you deem fit, but I will allow my daughter to grow her understanding throroughtly and naturally with kites that literally cannot put her in harms way. She's had a 1.5m for over a year and is well into her 3m in all kinds of conditions. She already knows which one to put up on any given day and understands that kites have a safe range and that it takes a quiver to do this sport safely. She will drag herself around on snow, skates, skateboards and eventually a snowboard long before she is put in the water, and when she does take that step, she will have long had her relaunch skills on lock, and it will be one more intuitive part of the overall process she goes through to become a lifelong safe and skilled kiter.

This thread speaks to the real problem. That people have no patience or understanding that learning to kite board is a process. Not a switch. Time spent doing it safely and incrementally is never ever time wasted.

I took to this sport with years of wind and water sport experience and already possessed the respect to take it one step at a time. I learned to kite in my early 30's. No matter how long it takes my kids to learn it, they will be light years ahead of me by the time they reach their 20's, and if they share any of my aptitude and stoke for the sport they will be absolutely kick ass riders with the brains and judgement to make a safe go if this sport for a lifetime.

Rant over.

User avatar
KYLakeKiter
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:52 am
Local Beach: Kentucky Lake (Tennessee) Standing Rock Cove and Big Sandy
Favorite Beaches: Who needs a beach? Just give me some open water.
Style: LeeRoyyyyyy Jenkinnnnnnns!
Gear: All kites are cool !
Boards are like music. Everyone likes something different.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Tennessee
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby KYLakeKiter » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:39 pm

Take a blood pressure pill Starsky. This is a simple discussion of opinions based on what people thought about trainer kites when they learned, and when they teach. You really don't deal well with people who have a different opinion than you. Every heard of "to each his own"?

User avatar
Mad_dan
Medium Poster
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:51 pm
Style: Bigair and airstyle
Gear: Core XR4 13.5
Core GTS3 11m
Core GTS4 9m
Core XR 6m
Tronic.
Naish mega
Airrush slayer
Airsusv sector
Crazyfly cruizer
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby Mad_dan » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:09 pm

Who the h... bother to fly a trainer kite "20-40 hours" or at "50 different locations and in different conditions" when its kite surfing your dreaming about. A little bit overkill in my opinion... At least I would never have patience for that anyway.

User avatar
Slappysan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Wave Bandit Performer 4-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby Slappysan » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:18 pm

A kite that you can repeatedly crash in to solid ground while learning on dry land ... yeah, I can't see a use for that.

User avatar
Starsky
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4374
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Ontario
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby Starsky » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:20 pm

Its a rant because I feel the underlying thought process behind the initial question shows a lack of understanding and common sense. I agree with plenty, and disagree with many all the while with a pretty steady heart rate.

It's just a sport. Not really a hard one to become competent at, but you just can't deny it has disaster potential. Nothing mitigates that aspect better than experience. Not reading, not videos, not even good instruction can compare. Trainers provide access to experience and understanding of big picture concepts with mitigated risk. They don't make you a kiter, but the assumption that $150 on a trainer is a waste of time and money is a worrying issue. Those that are in a hurry or focused on cutting cost are more likely to end up damaging themselves, someone else, their gear, or access. I'm self taught, did it on a shoe string budget and am not against anyone else doing the same depending on how they go about it, but I'm gonna point out where people over look the obvious.

Your more than welcome to take issue with my opinions, and point it out when I show faulty logic, but simply expressing your disagreement with my tone is pretty weak debate.

To be clear, I probably flew a trainer at least 20 times before moving to a 4 line inflatable that I would guess I flew another 15-20 times before is snowed enough to put on a snowboard. One winter of that and then to the water. Held upwind ground at the end of my first downwinder. All of that was between sept and June. Had a blast doing it instead of dreaming about it all winter long and logged probably 30+ sessions of quality riding on snow that ensured I was hooked for life. Not a real long time when you consider it was 13 years ago. There are still no viable lessons to be had nearby.

I have watched others go summer after summer before they can hold their ground. A bit sad to watch, and they are conspicuously absent the long winters in between where they could have got it all wired in a matter of days! In the hurry to skip a step here and there, they will take years to get to a decent level of light wind skill so they can log some decent sessions in a season.

My kids (since others mentioned teaching kids in a handful of sessions) are the ones who will easily log 20 + sessions on a trainer before they are even of sufficient age/size/strength to want to take it further. It's not enforced, its been a rather natural pace. Something to do. What I would absolutely not do is expect that they have anywhere near the knowledge and experience to go it alone after 4-5 hours of instruction. They are worth a bit more to me than the few hundred I spent on trainers! The time I have invested with them has been some of my all-time favourite.

FYI crashing your trainer a few hundred times is cheaper than going through that part of the learning curve on your spanky new inflatable, but hey, to each their own.
Last edited by Starsky on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JBZ
Medium Poster
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:00 pm
Local Beach: texas city Levee, Sherman island
Favorite Beaches: texas city Levee, Sherman island california, kite beach Maui
Style: freeride, wake style, wave
Gear: Best, slingshot, crazyfly
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Houston TX
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: What is the value of traing kites? I don't get it.

Postby JBZ » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:53 pm

honestly I enjoy flying a trainer. ive been kiting for many years and wont pass up kiting to fly a trainer. but at night...with a beer in my hand and glow sticks on the lines a trainer is awesome. how about on a skateboard in a parking lot.

if you enjoy flying kites then its fun...in my opinion. and trainers do help in learning the basics of kite flying. I would like to see more 4 line trainers out there to help with the power and depower logistics. that would help immensely with the natural o-shit instinct to pull in when things get powered up and exacerbate the issue.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], caduo, Google [Bot], MSN [Bot] and 21 guests