Bars with longer depower stroke for surf

[Starsky]

single vs dual.... meh whatever. Dual is cool most of the time until its not, and single is rarely a pain and always safe.

Used to have dual and survived, and now have all single and can't remember it ever inconveniencing me.

If your system never fires unintentionally, why not have extended throw single line for any kind of waves? Its basically the same as your double line system right up to the point its all gone south anyway and you want that single line option. The higher the wind the more important that single line gets. Would never go back to double on small kites.

[juandesooka]

I disagree. Extended reach has nothing to do with perfecting poo stance. It's a riding style thing and suits one hand in the surf. In waves its normal to have your arm out and are often riding depowered deep off the wind. It has nothing to do with riding a kite above its range. Doesn't really suit twin tip where ideally you carry kite momentum through the riding and might want to dial in the trim for unhooking. TT riders also loop more and most would rather have a stop to unspin on. In waves, dexterity is king. A quick reach out into extended range will stop a kite in its tracks almost anywhere in the window. Pretty handy.

I guess. I use BWS bar, seems to have enough throw to surf just fine. Maybe you're talking bars with some kind of super limited mini throw?

The OR bar has unlimited throw, but I find all that extra doesn't do you much good if your arm is already fully extended. That was my point about being overpowered. You can't push it to 11 if your fingers stop at 10 ... unless you let go of bar, which stops the kite for sure, but may stop the session too depending on how far up that slider is!

Same on the BWS bar for that matter. If you arm is already extended to just stay under control while over powered, then you don't have any more throw/depower when you need it in the waves.

That's a part of the move to no chicken loops and no hooks....get that extra 6-10" of throw, especially for short armed folks. IMHO.

[Starsky]

I use BWS bar, seems to have enough throw to surf just fine.

No doubt. I have pretty long arms and can hit the stop on any above bar I have ever tried, and I have a BWS bar. Funny enough, I do have a few really short throw set ups for C kites. Slacking your rear lines only works to a point with them.

Losing all of it (hook, CL, trim cleat) on my wave/foil bar has been a big improvement for me.

[tomatkins]

If you want a bar that can be used on both single line and dual line (IDS style) safety kites, then you could make one like mine. My set-up also allows a long “throw”, and the ability to spin the bar, and the use of a rope slider spreader bar, and no chicken loop. The ability to self-land and self-launch are made much easier, with the uncluttered 4 lines leaving the bar, being easily identified for manipulation for maneuvers, like reverse launching, etc.

To reduce the clutter, the “trim strap” for the power line adjusting has been transferred to the rear lines.

The safety leash has been extremely shortened to prevent it from wrapping around the end of the bar, when tumbled in the surf... or when the bar is dropped and re-grabbed during a failed self-landing procedure.

DUAL LINE SAFETY PROCEDURE:

The procedure to throw the kite to a dual line safety is initiated by pushing the bar against the stopper ball, which dislodges the stopper ball and allows the bar to slide up the front kite lines, where a fixed ball at 20 feet stops the bar. This little stopper ball is held by just enough friction by the “bulge” in the one power line, so that you can spin the bar, but also, so slight a force, that you can also easily push the bar to free the ball from the bulge.

SINGLE LINE SAFETY PROCEDURE:

The procedure to throw the kite to a single line safety is initiated by releasing the shackle, which acts as the primary release, and when the bar is let go, the bar slides up the one front line and stops at the second ball, which is firmly fixed to the line, about 20 feet from the kiter.

Some modification to a conventional bar is needed

The pictures are self-explanatory, if you study them.

[Peter_Frank]

Dear god that is funny.

But to be serious you combine big clunky quick releases with sliding setups and you get accidental releases. Sometimes multiple releases in one session. Take this picture for example.

Dude, you have no idea if that system has ever unintentionally released and are just trying to insult the dude who uses it.

@Juan

I disagree. Extended reach has nothing to do with perfecting poo stance. It's a riding style thing and suits one hand in the surf. In waves its normal to have your arm out and are often riding depowered deep off the wind. It has nothing to do with riding a kite above its range. Doesn't really suit twin tip where ideally you carry kite momentum through the riding and might want to dial in the trim for unhooking. TT riders also loop more and most would rather have a stop to unspin on. In waves, dexterity is king. A quick reach out into extended range will stop a kite in its tracks almost anywhere in the window. Pretty handy.

Spot on

When you lean fully into the bottom turn, you got a HUGE arm reach and I would say even with the shortest arms you can reach the stopper - and it is in this very scenario you want almost unlimited throw
Some even ride with seat harnesses in waves, and this makes the desired throw even longer, as you can reach much further now, during a bottom turn

Small or big kites got nothing to do with it

And must say, I can see no reason to use double front line safety in waves, as the only case it would be aaaaargh with single line is if you hit the QR unintentionally ?
Thus having a QR that does not punch out too easy is important yes - but if you are overpowered so you release to a double frontline, well, it wont help as you are "overpowered"

What I am missing here is, WHY would anyone release to two frontlines when in waves, except for unintentionally ???
Does not make sense to me....

Peter

[alamos_kiter]

Agree. I'm using a mini seat harness, 80cm throw franken bar, and single line safety for ages, and for a good reason. When I QR, I want to kill that kite for good. Didn't have an unintentional release in 8 years. The good thing is, we have choice. Whatever rocks your boat.

[Davepalu]

GET a surf orientated kite.

Surf orientate kites are designed to have much less pull, turn quicker, drift and dont power up with spikes and have gradual depower through the bar.

Finesse is so important, the board must follow the kite, yes throwing your arm out so the kite jellyfishes to make a turn so you dont get pulled off your line is a hint.

So when you have a kite that can drift in Cross/off, cross shore, Cross/onshore the most important thing to do is use the speed and power to get on the bottom of the wave with the peak in front of you,in surfing its called backdooring. 3-4 seconds before the wave is about to break you park your kite at 11-2 depending on the wind and let it go from an upwind position into that powerzone. This will give you the set up to ride a wave, unless you get this right the wave will be jerky and the kite takes control.

To feel more like a surfer, and to get the bottom turns right, the way you hold the bar is important. Try going down the line on your forehand side and the front hand is knuckles down, not knuckles up. its easier to turn the kite back down and makes for an easier bottom turn.

Get any good wave-rider on a wakestyle kite in the surf and they can probably make it work,yet theres different kites for different diciplines now.

[nikalaitzian]

convert your bar as much i you want..i do this with my bars

[Starsky]

@ Tom

Do you really need the rear line trim? I mean..... Tape!... Damn !!! That bar would make Red Green blush!

[tomatkins]

@ Tom

Do you really need the rear line trim?

No... in fact, I have removed the 3 ring mechanism from the floats, now that I have some new kites.

The rear trim mechanisms are only for those who like to go to extremes with their tinkering... on occasional trips to the North country, I have met such strange individuals... one of whom, I believe, was earning a Master’s Degree in Sticky-Tapeology, comparative uses of red vs. gray.