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Strength V weight for holding down power.

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Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby plummet » Wed May 11, 2016 8:44 am

So I am 10% lighter than last year. But I see zero change in my ability to hold power.

It got me thinking maybe your mass is not the limiting factor. Perhaps it is strength? I am as strong as when I had eaten more pies.
Perhaps people with a better strength to weight ratio will be able to hold more power and then boost higher than a fatter weeker person?

That would also explain why the pros can hold stupid big kite sizes and boost to the moon in the likes of the kota. They are most likely a lot stronger than your average weekend worrier.

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed May 11, 2016 9:12 am

Good work on the weight loss!

I tend to keep the kite low and push against the edge when over powered so the weight factor only really comes into play when launching (50m walk from the launch spot to the waters edge). That said, I prefer to be nicely powered rather than over powered.

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 11, 2016 11:39 am

It is not strength, you can not hold as much kite when lighter no matter what :o

Besides, you wont be able to ride waves the same if you dont choose a smaller kite - but that is another topic I know...

The reason you can not feel any difference is cause 10% is almost nothing (well, for you it is but not in kite terms)

Try with 30-40% difference and you will see how much it changes :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby Pemba » Wed May 11, 2016 1:02 pm

I can also not see how strength would substitute for weight. The pros... I guess their skill makes the difference.

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby t3rse » Wed May 11, 2016 7:40 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:It is not strength, you can not hold as much kite when lighter no matter what :o

Besides, you wont be able to ride waves the same if you dont choose a smaller kite - but that is another topic I know...

The reason you can not feel any difference is cause 10% is almost nothing (well, for you it is but not in kite terms)

Try with 30-40% difference and you will see how much it changes :rollgrin:

8) Peter

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. You might not be able to hold it down when it's overhead but muscle is what keeps it in check under power. You need to get back on a twin tip for a day.

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby edt » Wed May 11, 2016 9:32 pm

I see guys all the time that are knocked off their edge they race back to the launch for a smaller kite or a smaller board then I ask them "Why don't you just edge harder" they look at me like I'm speaking Klingon. I don't get it. You don't have to be a pro to edge hard. Just strength and a tiny bit of technique. Don't need weight either. but you will have to bring the kite down low so you can use your muscles.

I remember asking Toby to make a video tutorial called "How To Edge Hard" but I dunno if he ever made one.

need to get on the plummet diet. at 210 and 5'9" could stand to lose about 35 pounds. but ill be damned if i have to give up my cheetos and koolaid

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby plummet » Wed May 11, 2016 10:29 pm

t3rse wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:It is not strength, you can not hold as much kite when lighter no matter what :o

Besides, you wont be able to ride waves the same if you dont choose a smaller kite - but that is another topic I know...

The reason you can not feel any difference is cause 10% is almost nothing (well, for you it is but not in kite terms)

Try with 30-40% difference and you will see how much it changes :rollgrin:

8) Peter

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. You might not be able to hold it down when it's overhead but muscle is what keeps it in check under power. You need to get back on a twin tip for a day.
Peters logic is based on theoretical maths. In theoretical maths land he is correct. He is correct for when the kite is overhead. No amount of strength will stop from going up if the wind strength is strong enough.

BUT. His theoretical maths are not complex enough to explain exactly what is happening when a human being with flesh and bones is involved.

Once we get the kite low and powered up. There is angle and leverage between ratio between kite and board. That juncture is held by the persons strength of abs and legs. Have no strength = hold no power. Therefore strength is a factor for holding power when the kite is low. Peter doesn't have maths complex enough to explain this.

Or maybe we can put it a different way. Have a tug or war with 10 strong men and 10 fat week men of the same weight. Who would win? Going by Peters Maths the neither would win. there mass is equal. .....

Kite low in my mind is similar to the tug of war. Stronger person = more power holding ability.
Or do this test. Go and kite until for as long as you can. 10 hours, 20 hours perhaps, maybe even 1000 hours? See if you can hold the same power down when your muscles are fatigued?.... I've done a 24hr on a kite and i can tell you that you can't hold the same power.....

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed May 11, 2016 10:47 pm

I still disagree...

It is ALL about technique IMO, and not really strength, regarding how much power you can hold down, for a period of time.
Unless you are a total wuzz or tiny weak legs and back if a waist harness, but after years of surfing I think we all got strong bodies overall :wink:

With the right technique, and just normal reasonable strength, you will be able to hold so much power by edging, that being stronger will not let you hold even more.
Of course, if you got muscle stamina you will be able to kite for LONGER without getting tired and losing the edge easier - but this goes without saying.

A claim, I know, cause not possible to verify or not :roll:

Althoug I agree, that the stronger you are, everything else being equal (which it is NOT though), the better it is for everything :thumb:

And I have no idea why you are talking about theory and math, it got nothing to do with this topic and you never have your kite overhead when holding edge ?
I am talking bout experiences here, and what you see :naughty:

My claim is still: being equal strength or at least not a wuzz, you can hold slightly more power if heavier :rollgrin:

8) Peter

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby Westozzy » Wed May 11, 2016 11:44 pm

I have to say I'm with frank here. It's technique (given the same board which is a factor). Maybe it comes from being around in the early Foil, C kite days where edging was ALL you had to control power. I'm 75, ride with guys from 85 to 95kg, I'm invariably on a bigger kite (at least one size bigger but at times 3, given at the time we are on TTs and not SBs) but can hold it just fine. Super lit but controlled. Sure strength and weight have some influence for sure but your ability to edge out power at the edge of the window is a far greater factor.

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Re: Strength V weight for holding down power.

Postby dylan* » Wed May 11, 2016 11:57 pm

edt wrote:I see guys all the time that are knocked off their edge they race back to the launch for a smaller kite or a smaller board then I ask them "Why don't you just edge harder" they look at me like I'm speaking Klingon. I don't get it. You don't have to be a pro to edge hard. Just strength and a tiny bit of technique. Don't need weight either. but you will have to bring the kite down low so you can use your muscles.

I remember asking Toby to make a video tutorial called "How To Edge Hard" but I dunno if he ever made one.

need to get on the plummet diet. at 210 and 5'9" could stand to lose about 35 pounds. but ill be damned if i have to give up my cheetos and koolaid
Yeah, but that gets old pretty quick. I rode c-kites in the gusty ass Gorge for a season, riding a 7m when it's gusting 40 knots, and it is fine, you just put your kite low and really lean back into your harness. But when I'm throwing 2m-high spray while riding in a straight line, my lower back starts to get sore pretty quick and you can't really do anything fancy besides ride and maybe boost a bit, so it gets old fast. I'd rather rig a smaller kite and have fun.


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