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Kite too Fast

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edt
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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby edt » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:54 pm

long lines on a 5m won't really "slow down the kite" what happens is it will spin up in there in the air like a top, loop, loop, loop. put some 30's on a 5 you'll see what I mean right away. What the original poster wants is something nobody has given yet. Which 5 meter kites are the most stable! I'm trying to think of the 5ms I have ridden, I think the rebel was very stable rode that once or twice, fuel very good but that's a C kite the original poster probably wouldn't want that, hmm and a few older kites I won't bother to mention. Come on guys give your recommendations for the most stable 5 meter kites. We all know a few brands of 5 meter kites that are twitchy as hell, they are like a bumblebee up there. which 5's give you the most confidence? I usually don't go to the 5m range, 7m is where I usually stop.

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm

kitegirls wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:37 am
Been 5m weather as of late. Things outta control fast. Any tips on making it less reactive as well as any recommendations on slower, more stable 5m kites?

Many has given good advice.

But using LONGER lines is IMO wrong, in fact shorter would be better, if you got "out of control" problems, where you get pulled along.

I dont own a kite bigger than around 11-12 m2, but got everything else 3.5-5-6-7-8-9-11-12 and I am medium weight.

Using the small sizes very very often here.

So used to, and liking the small kites, and simply hate big kites - they dont bring more lowend and turn like pigs...

Having said that, I ride waves and hydrofoils - where a kite can never turn too fast.

On a TT, and when learning, indeed the small kites feels fast thus more difficult.

But as said, when used to them, no problem.

I dont even bother moving my bars to the "shorter" settting anymore - something I did years ago to get a less reactive kite (or just before it was recommended ha haa, what a joke)

So if you got that much wind often you write, you could opt for learning to ride these lovely babies small kites are :naughty:

Otherwise the options, besides finding a slow and dull new kite of course, are: Shorter bar, keep hands closer together, shorter lines, move the rear lines to the front attachment point, ride the kite on the depowered side thus slower.

8) Peter

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby Bille » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:29 pm

edt wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:54 pm
...
Come on guys give your recommendations for the most stable 5 meter kites. We all know a few brands of 5 meter kites that are twitchy as hell, they are like a bumblebee up there. which 5's give you the most confidence? I usually don't go to the 5m range, 7m is where I usually stop.
Smallest OZONE EDGE i ever flown, was a 7m on 27m lines in 35Kt winds ; it was quite
stable, and yes they do make a 5m Edge. Maybe you could find someone that would
let Ya demo a used one, for shipping fees both ways ? Is there an on-line shop that
actually does that ?

Bille

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby plummet » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:57 pm

Bille wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:29 pm
edt wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:54 pm
...
Come on guys give your recommendations for the most stable 5 meter kites. We all know a few brands of 5 meter kites that are twitchy as hell, they are like a bumblebee up there. which 5's give you the most confidence? I usually don't go to the 5m range, 7m is where I usually stop.
Smallest OZONE EDGE i ever flown, was a 7m on 27m lines in 35Kt winds ; it was quite
stable, and yes they do make a 5m Edge. Maybe you could find someone that would
let Ya demo a used one, for shipping fees both ways ? Is there an on-line shop that
actually does that ?

Bille
Nah edge is too punchy and powerful. If you want a docile kite for high wind with lots of depower look at wave kites or learner kites. There's also some dedicated high wind kites like the OR storm.

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:10 pm

kitegirls wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:37 am
Been 5m weather as of late. Things outta control fast. Any tips on making it less reactive as well as any recommendations on slower, more stable 5m kites?
Just use plenty of front line trim and make smaller and slower bar movements. Rocket science. Not. :wink:

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby edt » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:15 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:10 pm
Just use plenty of front line trim and make smaller and slower bar movements. Rocket science. Not. :wink:
the more you trim the kite the worse it performs, it will spill air out of the sides and the trailing edge so it won't respond as quickly to inputs, it won't turn as well, and the remaining bar throw you have won't work as well. No comment on the hands on the inside of the bar. The best 5m kites in my opinion are those that you know how a well trained dog is, you say "Sit!" go inside the store, get yourself a pepsi, come out and he didn't bark at anyone didn't shit on the sidewalk just waited patiently for you to come back, well the best 5m kites are like that. You give them an input they stay right there until you are ready to loop it to transition whatever you like. Some 5's tho, they are just twitchy as hell. You try to set them in the air at 10 o'clock but they won't stay put, you get a tiny bit of chop that gets transmitted up the lines and the next thing you know it is swooping around so you are using your inputs to control it get back in hand. You don't want to babysit the 5 meter kite you want it to be patient, responsive, quick but not too quick, in short, to not try to kill you because it is so unstable. Most kites of course are unstable, that's good it makes them more responsive. If you let go of the bar, the will will not autozenith it will start to accelerate up or down one way or the other. This is fine on slower and bigger kites you need that responsiveness but for tiny kites you want them to just stay in the air where you put them not to zip all over the place. There is a huge difference between the different 5 meter kites out there, some are pretty stable some well I think I would call them evil because they are just too fast and twitchy.

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:50 pm

edt wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:15 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:10 pm
Just use plenty of front line trim and make smaller and slower bar movements. Rocket science. Not. :wink:
the more you trim the kite the worse it performs, it will spill air out of the sides and the trailing edge so it won't respond as quickly to inputs, it won't turn as well, and the remaining bar throw you have won't work as well.
That's what the OP wanted.
kitegirls wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:37 am
Been 5m weather as of late. Things outta control fast. Any tips on making it less reactive as well as any recommendations on slower, more stable 5m kites?

Matteo V
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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby Matteo V » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 am

There is no good direct answer to the original question. If someone tries to provide a answer that fits this question, they will be doing a disservice to the original inquirer. This is because they will be attempting to give advice on a part of the situation that is not responsible for the problem.

You are the part of the "gear/person equation" that must change in this situation. And many who have responded have a pretty good understanding of this.

So let me pose the question in a better directed way. - "Been 5m weather as of late. Things outta control fast".......Any tips on me getting better at handling 5m winds?

1. My first tip would be to get on a 4m for a session or two. Even if you have no hope of getting upwind, later the 5m will seem to have magically gotten slower and more manageable. And that 4m will be useful in the future as your skill progresses if you are in an area (or travel to one) that has 4m winds.

2. If you have no access to a 4m, you should get back to your roots in kiteboarding back when you flew the fastest kite you have ever flown. All kiters should keep on hand the small trainer kite they started out with. Everyone knows that a small trainer is the fastest kite with a bar that they have ever used, and, small trainers still have some characteristic similarities to an inflatable depower kite with respect to steering and power in the wind-window. Get out and fly a small trainer in a bit higher (but still safe) winds and really try to get an instinctual feel for it's speed. Make sure that you can fly it without seeing it, single loop it without looking at it on the recovery, and recover from multiple loops with a 99% success rate (not crashing). This will help you up your reaction time to manage a kite that responds quicker than you have adjusted to of late.

3. After doing one or both of the above, try to adjust your tempo. This is the most difficult part of small kites. It is hidden to most riders in that most riders never even realize what has changed when they suddenly have a good session on a small kite. And matching your tempo to the kite size will not only help when going down in size, but also up. Given that your body operates at a similar speed on the water regardless of kite size, the kite tempo vs. rider tempo can get out of sync on a kite size that the rider is not used to. With each stroke of a 12m kite, you could do 2-4 things.....or rather you have time to do 2-4 things. On a 6m kite, you would have roughly half the amount of time to do something......therefore you could only do 1-2things on each stroke of that smaller kite. Simply put, you do not have the time to do lots of things with a smaller kite, so simply stop trying to do so much. Once you adapt this idea to your style of riding on smaller kites, you will start to do 2 strokes of the kite (like 2 loops) for a trick that you would have only needed 1 stroke for with a larger kite.


Like I said, the tempo thing can go both ways. Those coming from mostly using smaller (6m) kites will have lots of trouble handling a larger kite (12m) because they will rush the move or only do one trick when 2 would have better suited the time allotted by the larger slower kite. So when you go up in size, try to fit 2 tricks together inside of 1 stroke of the kite. Since the kite is taking more time to complete it's passage through the window, the rider can do more with that extra time. The kite's tempo has been reduced, so the kiter can do either one thing at half the speed (and match the kite's slower tempo), or complete two things at regular speed (keep the kiters tempo the same but do more).

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby iriejohn » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:12 am

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 am
...
TL;DR

In general, smaller kites fly faster and are more sensitive to control changes thus requiring smaller user inputs,

:thumb:

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Re: Kite too Fast

Postby Do-it » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:05 pm

I would look into ocean rodeo storm


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