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First Foil

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Re: First Foil

Postby Kitehume » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:33 am

I am currently learning on a rocket foil. With the long mask. Has been easy to learn on. (I say that now, but my first go on it I was calling it a c&@t.) on my second go was able to get up on the board. Riding along the surface.
I started with the mast all the way back for the so I could get a feel for how it felt underneath my feet with out the foil engaging. And with all my body weight over the front foot. And very loose straps.
So after about 6 sessions I am able to get up on the foil with the occasional touch down. I now ride with the mast about a inch from the back.
Has been a good buy. No regrets.
I am riding it in the 8-12 knots wind range. Mostly with my 12 & 14.5m flites.
For me it's my light wind weapon. Gives me more time on the water. If it the wind picks up I switch to my Twin tip.

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Re: First Foil

Postby f2020 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:11 am

alexrider wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:18 pm
f2020 wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 pm
The Double Agent is the worst foil I've ever tried. Slow, Whistling and not stable.
Hello my friend!
True the Double Agent is slow, very slow and some of them do whistle; not mine, btw.
That's how far we agree.
Not stable? You mean in pitch? True the first model is a bit pitch twitchy and not easy (the first sessions) to get the height right. I solved that by changing the stabilisers' angle of attack (returned to original after having dialled in). The 2017 model, due to its longer fuselage is very stable and noticeably faster (due to the thinner mast I guess) and nearly as manoeuvrable. I suggest you try it; you might reconsider your opinion. :wink:
After having tried several other boards, the low volume of the DA board makes it the easiest to waterstart of all the ones I've tried.
BTW, I know a couple of riders who bought freeride hydrofoils which from reviews were considered easy (of the Fone freeride kind). They nearly gave up hydrofoiling till they were suggested to have a go at the Double Agent before giving up. A few sessions were enough to get them going.
I personally managed rides of 500 meters between falls after 6-7 short sessions totalling 2 hours, and I'm an old dog who's not supposed to be able to learn new tricks. Two weeks ago, a Belgian rider bought a 2017 DA over here and in less than a week (after about 8 sessions totalling 8 hours) could gibe, ride toe-side and even tack (surface). More remarkable: he came straight from twintip without having ever ridden a directional.
I haven't tried the other beginner's hydrofoil with similar features (large wing, alu mast...) there is no reason they should behave much differently than the Cab DA.
The DA is turns and carves like no other. I enjoy riding it a lot more than my faster and quieter Zeeko Green & White, which is considered as one of the best for beginners and more advanced freeride hydrofoil. I know several experienced riders in Bali and Hua Hin who wouldn't consider upgrading because they love playing and carving in the waves, something you cannot do with fast foils (ask BRM Greg).
In the end it's the sort of riding style that determines your preference for such and such a foil. If you like zipping along at high speeds, the DA isn't for you. If you enjoy foiling like do when flying a Piper Cub or a floater hang-glider, then it's definitely for you, even when past the beginner's stage.
Yes, the pitch stability was horrible and the nose was dipping in the waster all the time. I also tried the CRX by Neil Pryde (similar to Double Agent). With both the CRX and the Double Agent I had the horrible feeling of dragging something below my feet (like catching a plastic bag on my Sword2). I didn't feel the Double Agent had a good yaw either. My Sword2 with the race wing 2016 turn much faster. I also felt the Double Agent too slow to catch the wave.

The owner of the Double Agent ended up giving up on foils after a year as he didn't enjoy it better than his surfboards! The CRX owner wasn't enthusiastic either.

There are huge differences between foils. A good one will make you addicted, a bad one probably not.
Last edited by f2020 on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: First Foil

Postby cglazier » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:20 am

f2020 wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:11 am
..There are huge differences between foils. A good one will make you addicted, a bad one probably not.
Very true. :wink:

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Re: First Foil

Postby mbs » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:29 am

I am also learning. Now 3 sessions in, each about an hour. I picked up some used gear on iKitesurf- a zeeko blue and white alloy foil with two masts - 60 cm and 90 cm, and a slingshot alien air board. So far I've only been using the 60 cm mast. The zeeko foil has a medium aspect. While maybe slightly more difficult for learning I went with that bc I thought it would last me longer and I wouldn't be quick to want to replace it once I get comfortable enough to go fast. In three short sessions I'm already riding up on the foil in straight lines each way for long reaches. I'm still crashing to turn but I've already got the feeling of staying up on the foil. I would say don't be afraid to go with a medium aspect foil. The newer 2017 version of the zeeko blue and white alloy is the green and white. It looks pretty similar as far as I can tell. Zeeko also had a low aspect "carver" front wing which is probly more stable for learning. Its all modular, you can use different wings on the same fuselage if you wanted to have more than one wing.

The alien air board is big with a lot of volume. I'm a bigger guy (2225 lb or 100kg) and I think the high volume has helped, particularly for the first session with mast mounted all the way back in the track and riding mostly on the water with only brief lift offs. I moved the mast slightly forward for the second session and was able to start flying a little, but still touching down a lot and I think the high volume board was helping. I will say that it was a little bit of a pain at first to torque the setup onto its side to get feet into the straps prior to starting because the board is so wide and floaty though. But it didn't take long to learn that with a foot into one of the straps you can just use your foot to twist it with a hand on the rail to get it to rotate to the point where both feet can get in the straps. Now I've got the feel of doing that and it's no big deal. The board can be set with two or three straps so that's nice too.

This is the only setup I've tried so really I have nothing to compare it against, but I can say that it's working for me and I'm loving it. I've been able to progress pretty fast so far with the combo of the 60 cm mast, zeeko blue and white foil, and alien air board. I'd say that if the board has a mast track maybe you don't need a super short mast because for your first session just mount the mast all the way aft and you keep a lot of front foot pressure to keep the board down. Then after you get comfortable with riding like that, you just shift weight ever so slightly back to feel the lift off sensation. It's still a new feeling for me and I'm super stoked - it's like riding a magic carpet once you can stay up on the foil.

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Re: First Foil

Postby skideeppow » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:07 pm

i love my slinghsot foil with alien air. Sure it goes a little slower but it is bomb proof.

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Re: First Foil

Postby robinsonpr » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:16 pm

Same question from me as I'm looking for my first foil. Also on my shortlist is the Shinn Jackson with P foil. Any comments on that compared to the Slingshot Hoverglide and Cabrinha Double agent??

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Re: First Foil

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:38 pm

I got the Axis aluminum foil early last year. Got a handful of sessions on it before I had an ankle op.

Far better than the LF or DA, and for me I like it more than the HG. The HG was very roll stable and tracked a straight line, but I prefer the lighter feel of the Axis. Easier riding (no bad habits) and 2kg lighter IIRC...

All that gushing, but I’m going to be selling it I think :D going to be out an Axis big wing/surf foil, and if it lives up to the claims, I’ll be all over that.

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