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Ankle leash on a surfboard?

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skideeppow
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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby skideeppow » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Exception to the rule? Cloudbreaks, board leash but no kite leash? I have been told that is the story out there.

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby NorCalNomad » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 am

ELI wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:06 pm
You still see Pete Cabrinha,Robbie Naish ,Raphael Salles ,etc. all leaders in kiting in straps.
All leaders in being old and not progressing the sport now.

Look at Patri, Mitu, Matchu, and Airton, to name a few, if you want to see progress.

If you have a "beach" or reef that will destroy your board, yeah use a leash. But for most situations no leash, no straps.

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby TommyDuotone » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:56 am

DO NOT WEAR A LEASH. People have given you numerous rare examples of when you should. However, you are not a pro and you are just starting out. Don't put straps on either, at least for now. Safety should be your only concern when you are learning in waves because so much more can happen. You do not want to be anywhere near your board when you crash. The only thing you should be thinking of when you crash is flying your kite away from your board, making this a habit. Forget the board, it will be waiting for you on the inside(hopefully no reef). It seems your only complaint is that you have to body drag a lot because you keep losing your board(we've all been there). That's not a bad price to pay for your safety, is it? Plus, you will get a lot of practice body surfing in and eventually you will be beating your board back to shore. I personally have never worn a leash or really had to. But, I don't mind chasing my board in either(gives me a chance to take a breather sometimes). Stop whining, watch some videos, and practice :wink:

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby Beardytello » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:48 am

iblocalsurfer wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:56 am
DO NOT WEAR A LEASH. People have given you numerous rare examples of when you should. However, you are not a pro and you are just starting out. Don't put straps on either, at least for now. Safety should be your only concern when you are learning in waves because so much more can happen. You do not want to be anywhere near your board when you crash. The only thing you should be thinking of when you crash is flying your kite away from your board, making this a habit. Forget the board, it will be waiting for you on the inside(hopefully no reef). It seems your only complaint is that you have to body drag a lot because you keep losing your board(we've all been there). That's not a bad price to pay for your safety, is it? Plus, you will get a lot of practice body surfing in and eventually you will be beating your board back to shore. I personally have never worn a leash or really had to. But, I don't mind chasing my board in either(gives me a chance to take a breather sometimes). Stop whining, watch some videos, and practice :wink:
:lol: I wasn't exactly whining!

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby ITN » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:14 pm

You don't want to get rolled with your board attached to you. Body dragging back to your board thats washed up on the beach will take you all of 2 minutes if indeed it has gone all the way in which it usually doesn't. If you are kitesurfing in front of a dry reef or way out to sea its another story but by then you'll be good enough to make your own judgement whether to wear one.

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:38 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:53 pm

The way you talk you obviously have no clue about surfing etiquette. The same rules apply for any surf sport regardless of with kite or without, foil no foil, paddle or prone. The safety of others is always the first concern. The leash is there for the safety of others. In flatwater you do don't need a leash. if you come here into any of the surf spots and go in without a leash you will be having words with the kiters and surfers I look up to, and I guarantee you will never surf anywhere here on Fuerteventura if you go surfing or wavekiting without a leash and end up hurting someone.

Be safe, and think of others Matteo.

--
Gunnar
I am of the opinion that a loose board at a kitesurfing break (not a surf break) is much less of a danger to anyone than if you get knocked out by the board snaping back at you and hitting you in the head because of the leash. At that point, you are going to cover orders of magnitude more area with much more dangerous kite lines and your body. Most likely, a non kiting bystander will attempt to help you by grabbing the kite lines and getting themselves hurt. In kiteboarding, maintaining control is paramount to safety of others. A leash is something that has 2 methods of making you give up that control. The first is the board going through your lines and you losing steering control. The second is becoming disabled by a board getting slingshot by the leash back into you causing severe laceration or loss of consciousness.

If Fuerteventura has a predominance of leashed kitesurfers, it would be a unique spot indeed. I am not familliar with any kite spots like that. No wave spot that I kite lets any leashed rider go without a talking to about losing that leash for their own and everyone's safety. Are you in the majority with using a leash at Fuerteventura? or is this your own idea with few others, and mostly beginners using leashes?

And please do not take this as a personal attack. I am only trying to let others know the consensus of the community on this issue. You could prove your position by refuting the dangers I highlighted above. Do you have any arguments why those experiences I, and others have had with leashes are not a valid argument against using a leash while kitesurfing?

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby gmb13 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:06 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:38 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:53 pm

The way you talk you obviously have no clue about surfing etiquette. The same rules apply for any surf sport regardless of with kite or without, foil no foil, paddle or prone. The safety of others is always the first concern. The leash is there for the safety of others. In flatwater you do don't need a leash. if you come here into any of the surf spots and go in without a leash you will be having words with the kiters and surfers I look up to, and I guarantee you will never surf anywhere here on Fuerteventura if you go surfing or wavekiting without a leash and end up hurting someone.

Be safe, and think of others Matteo.

--
Gunnar
I am of the opinion that a loose board at a kitesurfing break (not a surf break) is much less of a danger to anyone than if you get knocked out by the board snaping back at you and hitting you in the head because of the leash. At that point, you are going to cover orders of magnitude more area with much more dangerous kite lines and your body. Most likely, a non kiting bystander will attempt to help you by grabbing the kite lines and getting themselves hurt. In kiteboarding, maintaining control is paramount to safety of others. A leash is something that has 2 methods of making you give up that control. The first is the board going through your lines and you losing steering control. The second is becoming disabled by a board getting slingshot by the leash back into you causing severe laceration or loss of consciousness.

If Fuerteventura has a predominance of leashed kitesurfers, it would be a unique spot indeed. I am not familliar with any kite spots like that. No wave spot that I kite lets any leashed rider go without a talking to about losing that leash for their own and everyone's safety. Are you in the majority with using a leash at Fuerteventura? or is this your own idea with few others, and mostly beginners using leashes?

And please do not take this as a personal attack. I am only trying to let others know the consensus of the community on this issue. You could prove your position by refuting the dangers I highlighted above. Do you have any arguments why those experiences I, and others have had with leashes are not a valid argument against using a leash while kitesurfing?
Of course riders with leashes are in the majority here. Most of the riders are of a quite high level here and we have proper waves where not wearing a leash is a major safety issue for yourself and others. I already made my arguments, and they are backed up by the best surfers and kitewave riders in the world. Your OPINION is NOT the consensus of the wave kiting community. Anyone who actually rides proper waves wears a leash. In flat water and mowing the lawn, yes don't wear a leash.

In regards to your experiences. I don't know how to be politically correct way of saying this: If you are so likely to get hit in the head by your own board, maybe you should not be out in waves that need you to wear them. Maybe you never have been kiting in proper waves. From the way you called me a beginner with no experience, you probably have not been kiting long.


--
Gunnar

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:22 am

gmb13 wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:06 pm

Of course riders with leashes are in the majority here. Most of the riders are of a quite high level here and we have proper waves where not wearing a leash is a major safety issue for yourself and others. I already made my arguments, and they are backed up by the best surfers and kitewave riders in the world. Your OPINION is NOT the consensus of the wave kiting community. Anyone who actually rides proper waves wears a leash. In flat water and mowing the lawn, yes don't wear a leash.

In regards to your experiences. I don't know how to be politically correct way of saying this: If you are so likely to get hit in the head by your own board, maybe you should not be out in waves that need you to wear them. Maybe you never have been kiting in proper waves. From the way you called me a beginner with no experience, you probably have not been kiting long.

Gunnar
No need to be politically correct as I am ok with insults. And no need to go d--k measuring with amount of time in the sport. I have enough experience and live my life for kiting - and have for a long time. If you would like, we could compare transcripts from Kitesurfing U. I'll show you mine, you show me yours. But no real need for that, just answer a few more questions and we will be to the bottom of this.


And so I would like to get to the data. At my summer coastal spot, there is like a ratio of 100 (without leashes regardless of wave size) to 1 (with leashes - only newbs). And what you imply about not letting someone kite at Fuerteventura without a leash, is the opposite of what it would happen at my local. Basically, I have even got a talking to about friends using leashes with a prompting to talk to them about losing the leash or at least wearing a helmet. So my fellow kiters, on the north west coast of the US, definitely lean toward looking at leashes as a kook move. One could reasonably argue that kiteboarding history and local influence has perpetuated the idea that leashes increased the chance of injury and loss of kite control

Back in the C kite days, a leash was guaranteed to get get you slammed by the board, but lack of upwind body dragging capability of those first kites necessitated a leash if your were ever going to make it back to your board. My limited personal C kite experience verified this. And at some of the less predictable and gusty inland locations, even the new/safer kites could act like an old C kite. So my experiences with standard surf leashes and even the Eel leash, even with modern kites, verified the consensus here that leashes are much more dangerous than the convenience of using them.

Can you cite the ratio of leash users at Fuerteventura? Would you think it is possible that a group that of local kiters, such as yourself, would cling to leashes and bully others into using them as you have implied: "if you come here into any of the surf spots and go in without a leash you will be having words with the kiters and surfers I look up to, and I guarantee you will never surf anywhere here on Fuerteventura......"

That attitude could definitely influence the ratio toward using leashes if a core group of kitesurfers is clinging to them and wanting it to be cool to use them by making everyone use them.

And, are you kitesurfing around prone surfers? If so, I would deffer to your expertise as I have little to no experience in a situation like this. Surf spots are not kite spots around here, though a tiny number of surfers will occasionally show up at the kitebeach. Given the longshore current, surfers do not last for very long where we kitesurf. Prone surfing spots are typically completely wind shadowed bays, though many exceptions exist where a low jetty shelters the prone surfers but kitesurfers still have access to the wind. Even at those locations where surfers mix with kitesurfers, the skill of the rider with the kite is what gets the board back, not the leash.

And please define for me "proper wave".

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby gmb13 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:21 am

Hi Matteo,

The ratio for strapless riders using a leash here in proper waves is 10/10. Even some of the strapped guys do it, as loosing the board can have dire consequences (I will get back to those).

Here is some more info in Fuerteventura. We have a pretty similar setup to Maui here. The Canaries are known as the Hawaii of Europe. Kitesurfers, Windsurfers, Prone surfers, bodyboarders (the list goes on) share the water with bathing tourists. Kiting however is still viewed as a rogue sport here and a lot of Windsurfers and Surfers have a problem with kiters being sharing the spots. However we get along for the most part, but it's an uneasy peace, and every time something happens (like a board hitting someone) then all the animosity starts again. However that is not the big problem here. The big problem is, that if a kiter screws up and injures a tourist who is bathing (even if he is not supposed to be there) with his board we have talks about banns happening, again.

In regards to body dragging. When the waves get good here, you have almost zero chance of retrieving your board before it gets back to the beach, or ends up on the rocks. Here is an example of where I took a stupid risk. https://youtu.be/aBTWoriGD7E . Luckily this was over the reef and there was no one in the way. But my point is, no matter how good you think you can body drag, you are not getting to the board again before it hits the beach/reef. Almost all the spots on Fuerte have some kind of reef and those that don't have swimmers in the shorebreak.

Another issue is your own safety. In some of the best waves in the world (some of which are here) you are in serious trouble if you loose your board. In these waves the thing you dread the most is your leash snapping. I got into serious trouble in Mauritius back at the KSP Wave event at One Eye. My leash broke of one of the really big days. It took me about an hour to drag back over the reef into the safety of the lagoon. The current was so strong and the wind offshore enough that I was not making very much headway back to the lagoon without my board.

On our northshore we have a few waves spots where loosing your board will get you in serious trouble the same way as in Mauritius.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Ankle leash on a surfboard?

Postby Starsky » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:26 am

In many years of riding Hatteras I have yet to see any of the professional level kiters with a surf leash. Even on some of the gnarliest days when I chose not to go out, the pros were riding with straps, but no leashes. I remember a day about 5 years ago when Jessie Richman, Davey Blair, Ian Aledredge and a variety of other top area riders were all at the ocean side of kite point. It was probably 8 foot and blowing gusty 3o knots side off. Many visiting riders were sitting it out. I was personally thinking out lout about using a leash and one of the others rigging simply said, "if you can't pull this off without a leash, you probably shouldn't go out". I left eh leash in the car and had one of my most memorable sessions ever. Did lose my board a couple times, but never for more than a few seconds, and it was a non issue.

Would love to hear from other areas. Despite understanding that there are legitimate spots for a leash, they are rare, and usually not simply beach break. It certainly sounds like Fuerte is an anomaly.


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