Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

High Y vs Low V bars

Forum for kitesurfers
atomic-chomik
Medium Poster
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm
Kiting since: 4
Local Beach: The wild west
Style: Freeride/Surf
Gear: North Dice 8 and 10m
North Neo 12m
OR Prodigy 7m
OR Prodigy 9.5.
OR Prodigy 12m
2014 Rebel 5m and 8m
OR 17M Flite
OR Duke
Cabrinha Phenom 5'8
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

High Y vs Low V bars

Postby atomic-chomik » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:08 am

I know there has been a bunch of discussions about both of these styles and more specifically how the affect certain kites. After a sample size of many(70++) of comparative session between the two bars, i can verify that the North Dice and Neo fly better on high Y bar and lines(as designed).
Now here is the thing, i generally customize/make my own bars and lines using Q-line and Amsteel, i simply cannot justify spending 500 and whatever stupid dollars for bar and lines all the time. The question i have is before i start chopping up a spool of Q-line again, is the distance from the kite to where the Y meets the center line the important factor, or is it the distance from the bar up to the Y that is the determining factor in providing canopy stability and form? Maybe Dan at North can pipe in? Bueler? Bueler? Anyone?

knotwindy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:49 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: baja, gorge
Style: erratic to none
Gear: yes, I use gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby knotwindy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:58 am

Y up to the kite determines flight/canopy stability
Y down to bar is about safety release travel distance

oversimplified but mostly what you are asking, I think

ciscokitesurfer
Frequent Poster
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:40 am
Kiting since: 2012
Local Beach: Altona
Favorite Beaches: Pacasmayo
Style: wave, cruise
Gear: Neo
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ciscokitesurfer » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:51 am

i made my own high Y bar for my Neo kites. My high Y was one meter longer than the orginal bar. No issues found. cheers

Sun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:03 am
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Tybee Island
Favorite Beaches: Cape Town
Gear: 15m Chrono V2
12m Hyperlink
12m, 10m, 8m Dice (2018)
10m Roca V2
6m Alana (2016)
Naish Stomp 142
Nobile XTR
Nobile Zen Split Foil Board
Zeeko Blaster, Spitfire (Normal & XLW)
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby Sun » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Agreed with the above, distance from the kite to the Y is probably the most critical. Thinking to the Rebel, with no bridle, what would matter is the ratio of lateral to vertical pull provided by the Y. Basically if you change the angle of the Y you are changing the geometry of the "bridle" provided by the bar. Length below the Y only impacts anything after triggering safety, and then only how far the bar travels unless you put in a different stopper.

atomic-chomik
Medium Poster
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm
Kiting since: 4
Local Beach: The wild west
Style: Freeride/Surf
Gear: North Dice 8 and 10m
North Neo 12m
OR Prodigy 7m
OR Prodigy 9.5.
OR Prodigy 12m
2014 Rebel 5m and 8m
OR 17M Flite
OR Duke
Cabrinha Phenom 5'8
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby atomic-chomik » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:52 pm

Thanks. Confirms my thoughts on the subject. I had a below bar depower setup that i was just twisting to get a Y split farther up the line(Qline has a protective sheeth). I did try the single line release when it was wound up to the that Y point and it worked, but there is a possibility that it may cinch up. Ciscokitesurfer, you mind sending a pic of what system you used?

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5417
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish duotone cwb burton ronix rpm ozone
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby edt » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Image

User avatar
ShaveTheWhales
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Naish, Epic, F-one, Shinn
Brand Affiliation: Anything that jumps well and fun to fly
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:50 pm

just adding to it..

The kite canopy is designed to have a set shape for performance, lift area and turn.
The shorter the Y lines -it will pull the canopy wingtips closer together - which will make it turn tighter, but lose the flatter lift area which will also reduce your windrange.
There is some benefit in doing that if you have a spare bar and doing kiteloops with slower kite.

alford
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:53 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: all brands
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby alford » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:12 pm

Why do some brands design kites to be optimal with the high Y configuration? It just seems to add more compleity to the layout. Not a hater, I fully understand there are many outstanding kites and bars using this setup but it sure seems to be the long way around.
Would it be fair to say the industry is trending towards low V setups?

User avatar
ShaveTheWhales
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 618
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Naish, Epic, F-one, Shinn
Brand Affiliation: Anything that jumps well and fun to fly
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:18 am

Alford

To simplify it all - the high is basically like super long extension of the bridal lines... it will resist the force trying to flare the kites wingtips giving it stability. The extreme example being a kite flexing and warping in very overpowered conditions.

For a low Y at the bar - a lot more effort has to go into the design to keep it stable because you dont have that close high Y bridal supporting the structure.
Most people are using a standard 4 line bar these days and using them on any brand, once the get a bit more educated about them. Cost wise - makes sense to produce only one bar and lines rather than 2 - every year..

alford
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:53 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: all brands
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby alford » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:52 am

Shave, thanks for the info. I do have to ask however, why not put the extra work into the bridle to reap the benefits of a simpler bar layout? Seems like a worthwhile investment to me.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], SWO_kite and 25 guests

cron