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High Y vs Low V bars

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atomic-chomik
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High Y vs Low V bars

Postby atomic-chomik » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:08 am

I know there has been a bunch of discussions about both of these styles and more specifically how the affect certain kites. After a sample size of many(70++) of comparative session between the two bars, i can verify that the North Dice and Neo fly better on high Y bar and lines(as designed).
Now here is the thing, i generally customize/make my own bars and lines using Q-line and Amsteel, i simply cannot justify spending 500 and whatever stupid dollars for bar and lines all the time. The question i have is before i start chopping up a spool of Q-line again, is the distance from the kite to where the Y meets the center line the important factor, or is it the distance from the bar up to the Y that is the determining factor in providing canopy stability and form? Maybe Dan at North can pipe in? Bueler? Bueler? Anyone?

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby knotwindy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:58 am

Y up to the kite determines flight/canopy stability
Y down to bar is about safety release travel distance

oversimplified but mostly what you are asking, I think

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ciscokitesurfer » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:51 am

i made my own high Y bar for my Neo kites. My high Y was one meter longer than the orginal bar. No issues found. cheers
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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby Sun » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:45 pm

Agreed with the above, distance from the kite to the Y is probably the most critical. Thinking to the Rebel, with no bridle, what would matter is the ratio of lateral to vertical pull provided by the Y. Basically if you change the angle of the Y you are changing the geometry of the "bridle" provided by the bar. Length below the Y only impacts anything after triggering safety, and then only how far the bar travels unless you put in a different stopper.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby atomic-chomik » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:52 pm

Thanks. Confirms my thoughts on the subject. I had a below bar depower setup that i was just twisting to get a Y split farther up the line(Qline has a protective sheeth). I did try the single line release when it was wound up to the that Y point and it worked, but there is a possibility that it may cinch up. Ciscokitesurfer, you mind sending a pic of what system you used?

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby edt » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Image

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:50 pm

just adding to it..

The kite canopy is designed to have a set shape for performance, lift area and turn.
The shorter the Y lines -it will pull the canopy wingtips closer together - which will make it turn tighter, but lose the flatter lift area which will also reduce your windrange.
There is some benefit in doing that if you have a spare bar and doing kiteloops with slower kite.

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby alford » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:12 pm

Why do some brands design kites to be optimal with the high Y configuration? It just seems to add more compleity to the layout. Not a hater, I fully understand there are many outstanding kites and bars using this setup but it sure seems to be the long way around.
Would it be fair to say the industry is trending towards low V setups?

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ShaveTheWhales
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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:18 am

Alford

To simplify it all - the high is basically like super long extension of the bridal lines... it will resist the force trying to flare the kites wingtips giving it stability. The extreme example being a kite flexing and warping in very overpowered conditions.

For a low Y at the bar - a lot more effort has to go into the design to keep it stable because you dont have that close high Y bridal supporting the structure.
Most people are using a standard 4 line bar these days and using them on any brand, once the get a bit more educated about them. Cost wise - makes sense to produce only one bar and lines rather than 2 - every year..

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Re: High Y vs Low V bars

Postby alford » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:52 am

Shave, thanks for the info. I do have to ask however, why not put the extra work into the bridle to reap the benefits of a simpler bar layout? Seems like a worthwhile investment to me.


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