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rip stop canopy

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Matteo V
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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby Matteo V » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:41 am

Faxie wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:28 am
You can still build crappy kites with good materials though...
"And boom goes the dynamite." Could not be better put into words.

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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby Sun » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:04 pm

Faxie wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:28 am
Well, North compared the Tejin T9600 with the D2, where they claim D2 is about 40% stronger.

In the graph by Naish, they claim that T9600 and D2 are almost the same stengthwise. Something's wrong here, don't you think?

Cabrinha uses 2DR btw. It's a cloth made to their specification in the Chang-Ho factory in Taiwan. Switch and Liquid Force use cloth from Chang-Ho too in some models.

I'm not sure about the triple ripstop from Core, but I think it's from Challenge Sailcloth.

But if a lot of companies use something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. They probably get a better deal with Teijin. You can still build crappy kites with good materials though...
Thanks, in my head I had been associating 2DR with D2, I did not realize they were of entirely different origin.

I will also need to review the differences between T9600 and D2. I am sure Teijin has that data published somewhere.

Another interesting development is that North has a new cloth (Trinity) from Teijin for 2018. Sounds like D2 except that there is an additional ripstop strand in one axis, aligned with the span of their kites. Certainly more anisotropic, but I guess it makes sense from a weight perspective. Although I am not sure how much weight is actually saved per kite for a 3x3 setup versus the 3x2.

I am sure someone will eventually get a kite with the strands running the wrong way, along the chord of the kite. Wonder if it will even make a noticeable difference. I am not being cynical, I am actually curious whether it would be noticeable to the rider.

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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby Faxie » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:57 pm

Sun wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:04 pm
Faxie wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:28 am
Well, North compared the Tejin T9600 with the D2, where they claim D2 is about 40% stronger.

In the graph by Naish, they claim that T9600 and D2 are almost the same stengthwise. Something's wrong here, don't you think?

Cabrinha uses 2DR btw. It's a cloth made to their specification in the Chang-Ho factory in Taiwan. Switch and Liquid Force use cloth from Chang-Ho too in some models.

I'm not sure about the triple ripstop from Core, but I think it's from Challenge Sailcloth.

But if a lot of companies use something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. They probably get a better deal with Teijin. You can still build crappy kites with good materials though...
Thanks, in my head I had been associating 2DR with D2, I did not realize they were of entirely different origin.

I will also need to review the differences between T9600 and D2. I am sure Teijin has that data published somewhere.

Another interesting development is that North has a new cloth (Trinity) from Teijin for 2018. Sounds like D2 except that there is an additional ripstop strand in one axis, aligned with the span of their kites. Certainly more anisotropic, but I guess it makes sense from a weight perspective. Although I am not sure how much weight is actually saved per kite for a 3x3 setup versus the 3x2.

I am sure someone will eventually get a kite with the strands running the wrong way, along the chord of the kite. Wonder if it will even make a noticeable difference. I am not being cynical, I am actually curious whether it would be noticeable to the rider.
I asked someone about the Core ripstip, and turns out that's Teijin too btw.

The Trinity video is almost the same as the D2 video, lol. But according to North 2x3 is the best combination... well according to Naish it isn't....

And Teijin is just a company like all the others. Their new stuff will always be advertised as better than the old stuf, even if it turns out it isn't.

You will probably notice some difference, but that is because the same design with different stretch properties will behave slightly different. You have to design a kite with stretch properties in mind.

Wasn't it Naish that made kites some time ago where the ripstop was placed diagonally in some areas?

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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby icurumba » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:47 pm

Like most brands, OR moves slowly when introducing new materials.

We have used Tejiin since day one ( 2001 ) Tejiin make fantastic canopy material, and all the rip-stops mentioned in this post are excellent. Some leading brands have changed ripstops over the years for reasons only they would know and this could explain comments regarding long lasting kites in the past, to newer models that don't last. OR has always used Tejiin ripstop. We have not seen any issue or change in durability or quality since the start. Still plenty of OR Rises on the water that are a now 10 years old.

Its also important to note that a great material is only part of the equation and cant make a poorly designed or poorly built kite "great".
Brands that have been around for 15 + years have been through a lot with the evolution of the sport. You learn each year how to make a kite better. Its a combination of subtle refinements in seam construction, panel layouts, bladder design and materials that are making our kites more durable, lighter and better flying each year.

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ORSales
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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby ORSales » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:34 pm

@Alfred, the post above is 'straight from the top'! "Icarumba" is our Founder, Richard who started Ocean Rodeo in 2001 and immediately brought to market innovations such as full dacron framing, spanwise panel shaping, shock strips, etc that have all helped build our reputation for durability...

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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby alford » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:17 pm

I gathered it was someone from OR but didn't expect it to be the grand poobah himself.
This topic has been educational and as I guessed, many layers to it, thanks OR for responding.

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Re: rip stop canopy

Postby Toby » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:50 am

Another interesting development is that North has a new cloth (Trinity) from Teijin for 2018.
North just released this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgABFvqE8lY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgABFvqE8lY


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