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Depower rope WTF

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wrogu
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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby wrogu » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:06 am

Yeah stuff breaks. And it is your health and safety, so be prepared to inspect/replace things even if they are not broken, you have doubts and its just a precaution.

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby iriejohn » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:41 am

foilholio wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:29 am
Welcome to kitesurfing, stuff breaks.
Stuff breaking due to expected wear and tear is one thing, but when it's similar in degree to a wheel which previously had shown little if any outward signs of possible failure coming off your car while driving down the road then it's a far more serious issue.
Kamikuza wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:58 am
But depower lines aren't something that should be snapping! Or at least, unable to be inspected...!
+1

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby Matteo V » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 pm
What is the crossover point where a "quality issue" becomes a "wear/lifespan issue"? :?:
To clarify at the beginning - like others have said, stuff breaks - due to lots of reasons.

Regarding non-wear parts:

1. Faulty design, major manufacturing defects, and improper materials will most likely show through in the first 1-20 sessions

2. Poor design, minor manufacturing defects, and less than ideal materials will most likely show through in the next 20-100 sessions

3. Well designed, with no manufacturing defects, and ideal materials will last 100 session or to the manufacture specified use period (yes, I know no manufacture does this!)

Leader lines, threads in the stitching (not improper stitching), stitching technique/stitching pattern, non-moving sheathed lines, cleats, bar grip, bar integrity, are all parts subject to minimal wear which should make the 100 session mark.


For wear parts such as unsleeved lines like depower lines and safety lines, sheathed safety lines, or any line in direct contact with sand, lifespan is dictated primarily by environment. Certain sands are simply more abrasive than others, and some can be relatively harmless on a line, but destructive when contained in a partially sealed space with lines. So no lifespan can be given for these parts other than what they average under similar conditions.

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby iriejohn » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 pm
What is the crossover point where a "quality issue" becomes a "wear/lifespan issue"? :?:
To clarify at the beginning - like others have said, stuff breaks - due to lots of reasons.

Regarding non-wear parts:

1. Faulty design, major manufacturing defects, and improper materials will most likely show through in the first 1-20 sessions

2. Poor design, minor manufacturing defects, and less than ideal materials will most likely show through in the next 20-100 sessions

3. Well designed, with no manufacturing defects, and ideal materials will last 100 session or to the manufacture specified use period (yes, I know no manufacture does this!)

Leader lines, threads in the stitching (not improper stitching), stitching technique/stitching pattern, non-moving sheathed lines, cleats, bar grip, bar integrity, are all parts subject to minimal wear which should make the 100 session mark.


For wear parts such as unsleeved lines like depower lines and safety lines, sheathed safety lines, or any line in direct contact with sand, lifespan is dictated primarily by environment. Certain sands are simply more abrasive than others, and some can be relatively harmless on a line, but destructive when contained in a partially sealed space with lines. So no lifespan can be given for these parts other than what they average under similar conditions.
I would designate PU sleeved trim rope as "faulty design" because the use of PU sleeving makes it is impossible to see when the internal rope lines are failing.

The use of PU over rope in CL's is also "faulty design" for exactly the same reason.

Thanks for your help.

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby Matteo V » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:13 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm
I would designate PU sleeved trim rope as "faulty design" because the use of PU sleeving makes it is impossible to see when the internal rope lines are failing.
I am no fan of PU sleeving on depowerlines because of how older sleeving made it harder to adjust sheeting while fully turning the kite(bar). Cabrinha, at least as of 2017 bars, did make this a non issue as the PU they use is now super slick and does not bind when the bar is turned.

Given that safety lines must "move" through that sheath, I would also side with you in your argument above. There is just no way to keep sand out of that space when a safety line can easily carry it inside. And, you cannot see that damage.

iriejohn wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm
The use of PU over rope in CL's is also "faulty design" for exactly the same reason.
I would disagree with this statement since the CL loop can be (and is) effectively sealed against sand infiltration. Visible wear is apparent when the sheath is compromised and you can easily notice that there is sand infiltration into the PU sheath. Thus is is little different from a bare line.

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby iriejohn » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:07 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:13 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm
.
iriejohn wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm
The use of PU over rope in CL's is also "faulty design" for exactly the same reason.
I would disagree with this statement since the CL loop can be (and is) effectively sealed against sand infiltration. Visible wear is apparent when the sheath is compromised and you can easily notice that there is sand infiltration into the PU sheath. Thus is is little different from a bare line.
It is faulty design because:

1. It is not always apparent when the (black) PU sheath has been compromised.

2. A rope which can be damaged by sand and grit is used inside the PU.

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:24 am

CA5473F3-C126-4564-BF7D-0DB61B04E892.jpeg
Here we are again... Less than 12 months later, less than 6 months old bar, less then impressed.

Square cut ends on the tails :angryfire: and there's a little flashing left inside the cleat. I'm thinking I might go back to straps but...
Foil wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:46 am
answer to this problem?
save up and buy the North 2018 North click bar, no more wear issiues, no worries.
no money!
This is actually a good idea. Now I've seen some up close with some experience of failing bars and ropes, and had a good look at how they work, they make a lot more sense then front line trim bars...!

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby evan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:12 am

Every Cabrinha bar I had in my workshop has a razor sharp edge inside the cleat, surprised me they didn't file down those edges in the factory or that it didn't came up in their testing program.

It is not that the ropes are too thin, but they got eaten by the clamcleat.
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Kamikuza
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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:21 pm

Yep that's what it looks like. Did you file it down?

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Re: Depower rope WTF

Postby ap888 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:14 pm

Should really get the word out for sure who cares about how the PU tube looks make them all clear for all the riders safety...it’s so easy to check b4 a session if it’s clear
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