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Trying to understand kite quiver

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jakemoore
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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby jakemoore » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:04 pm

12-10, 11-9 or 10-8 make a better 2 kite quiver. Better to cover normal wind you are going to ride with an ideal kite. If the spread is too far than you spend too much time in the best wind trying to hold down a kite that is too big or trying to work a kite that is too small. This is a mistake I made and lived with for a year due to budget and because I just didn't want to miss a day.

Much better as a beginner to sit out on a nuclear wind day (dangerous and rare) or a light wind day (common, boring without hydrofoil).

If both kites work well on your most common and fun wind conditions, you will not miss a great day if one kite needs some TLC.

You can extend the range with boards hydrofoil/freerace/Spleene Door on the low end and Lunch Tray twin tips on the high end. Then if you really need a light wind or a storm kite, buy the right kite.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby Matteo V » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm

3m gap: Good quiver for steady wind areas. Gap can easily be taken up by having two boards, one LW and one mid-range.

2m gap: Better for gusty winds that see you over powered or underpowered in a single stroke of the kite. LW boards are the default in this case as they allow you to glide through the lulls. 2 or more board sizes can allow you to handle varying average wind without pumping up another kite. In these conditions, everything is a compromise, so you want to be able to get in the middle of the gust/base/lull with that compromise.


And I concur that you should hold off on the smaller kites till much later in your experience. Usually, if you are out on your smallest kite and the wind comes up overpowering you - but you make it work, you are ready for a smaller kite size than your current smallest (don't go out and try this on purpose).

If it is 7m winds with some inconsistent gusts, a 7m is too fast for a beginner to stay safe on. At this point, take your trainer (your fastest flying kite) and fly it in those conditions without looking at the kite at all. If you can last 30min on the beach with your trainer without getting out of control (no crashes) in high winds, then you have a pretty good indicator that you may have the skill to ride in those conditions on a 7m.

Please stay safe with high winds and make sure you have room from beach goers and other kiters if you are just testing out your skills.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby edt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:09 pm

Quiver is a very personal thing. When you are new you just want to take advice and try to build a quiver that has not too many gaps but as you gain experience you realize that all those wind charts? They mean nothing, all that matters is what you feel like using. Some people have a single kite quiver. others have a range of kites. I like having bigger gaps than most. Good advice with dylan just above, the bigger your kite the larger the gaps. Smaller kites you need smaller gaps. This is because we feel the wind speed squared as the force on our kites.
Last edited by edt on Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby FLandOBX » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:31 pm

I'll echo what Jakemoore says about multiple boards. You can easily cover a huge wind range with a 2-kite quiver if you have multiple (e.g., 3+) board sizes. Boards are cheaper than kites, if money is a consideration.

I also think that riding the extremes of the wind graph gets less appealing as you gain experience (exception: foil board riders who love super light wind). I have lots of kites and can cover almost any wind condition, but 40 knots on a 6 meter just isn't as fun as it used to be. Ditto for 8-10 knots on a light wind kite. At some point, you'll want to do other stuff. My point is that having kites to covering the extremes of the wind graph may not be as important as you might think.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby foilonfoil » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:44 pm

The vendor guides are very general and change based on your weight, board, and riding style. As everyone else has been saying, a 2-3M difference in kite sizes from 12M down works well - 12/9/7 worked very well for me and I recently added a 5M but could just as easily consolidate the 5M/7M to a 6M. Careful as you move up from 12M into lighter wind kites. As an example, a 14M switchblade is not a lightwind kite - Its a 12M kite for a big person. Boards go a long way to compensate for smaller kites on lighter days as do line extensions. Adding 3M line extensions are roughly equivalent to 1M kite size increase but there is a penalty to line extensions if only because you could be messing around at launch.

I totally agree with etd on a quiver being personal... My goto kites are foils but for really gusty conditions, I switch over to LEI surf kites.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby abel » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:33 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:15 am
Get a 7 now, to go with your 12 - and then later you will definitely buy a 9 also, the "best" size for everything, and you will find out you need it if you got different winds.

Dont got with an 8 m2, as then you are locked and can not get a 10 as pretty close to the 8 and 10, and you will still miss a kite for high wind days.
If you know 100 % you are never gonna get three kites, okay, the 8 is the size :D

12-9-7 is the classic quiver that suits almost everybody, and whether you get the 9 or 7 first is your choice - but as you only want one, and are going to travel - you could go with 7-12 now, just be careful that you dont go out too overpowered (risky) with the 12, because the 7 is too small...

The windranges shown is just what each brand want to show - they can be really different and NOT comparable at all, but will give you an idea where the sweetspots are for the average rider and gear.

You will be much wiser yourself when you got another kite.

8) Peter
Given that you are a beginner, I would fine tune Peter's recommendation to 8 and 12. of course the 7 would be safer, but by the same logics a 6 would be even more 'safer' [just teasing Peter :wink: )
With an 8 you'll keep the frustrating shame walks to a lower rate 8) .
Anyhow, the 8-12 overlapping gray areas are better covered than a 7-12; given spots that are not Jericocoara (not really the optimal spot for beginners)

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby DariKite » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:12 am

WOW. That was some insightful information! Thank you. I think it’s pretty clear that a 5m gap wouldn’t be advisable in most cases and even less for me being a beginner. I had a feeling that those wind range charts could be unrealistic and that’s why I reached out to you guys.

I was still wondering if I could stretch the 2 kite quiver to 12m and 8m but that would probably still leave a gap in a certain wind range. I don’t want to risk being unhappy or uncomfortable at that wind range since it will be the range I will ride the most in.

It’s also reasonable advice that my next kite size be a medium rather than a small. But the reason I had considered the 7m is that I heard that in Jericoacoara and the areas close to there the wind range is between 20kn – 30kn. The 7m seems to cover that wind range much better than the 9m.

I didn’t get into kiteboarding to stretch it and suffer so I think I’ll just go with the safest bet. I will buy a 9m which would be suitable for my skill level for now. If it blows over 25kn I probably won’t like to be out there in the water for now anyway.

I’ll have plenty of time to decide what my third kite size will be ☺

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:34 am

DariKite wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:12 am
WOW. That was some insightful information! Thank you. I think it’s pretty clear that a 5m gap wouldn’t be advisable in most cases and even less for me being a beginner. I had a feeling that those wind range charts could be unrealistic and that’s why I reached out to you guys.

I was still wondering if I could stretch the 2 kite quiver to 12m and 8m but that would probably still leave a gap in a certain wind range. I don’t want to risk being unhappy or uncomfortable at that wind range since it will be the range I will ride the most in.

It’s also reasonable advice that my next kite size be a medium rather than a small. But the reason I had considered the 7m is that I heard that in Jericoacoara and the areas close to there the wind range is between 20kn – 30kn. The 7m seems to cover that wind range much better than the 9m.

I didn’t get into kiteboarding to stretch it and suffer so I think I’ll just go with the safest bet. I will buy a 9m which would be suitable for my skill level for now. If it blows over 25kn I probably won’t like to be out there in the water for now anyway.

I’ll have plenty of time to decide what my third kite size will be ☺

Sounds like the perfect choice, going 12 and 9 :thumb:

The reason I suggested the 7 was because you, at your initial post, somehow seemed unwillingly to not have a kite for the windier conditions you travel to now, sorry my mistake and good you are openminded :D

I would not go with an 8 m2 as said, because this will lock your quiver into this big 4 m2 gap, and not make it possible for you to have a well balanced quiver later (unless you sell either the 8 or 12, or go bananas and get 6-8-10-12 but THAT is expensive luxury)

Being a beginner (OR experienced, same thing), the 9 will be the best support for your 12 when windier - and you can then get a 7 one day, later when more experience and maybe other boards (or not, if not needed at your spots)

8) Peter

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby el_guestos » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:06 am

I second the idea of buying 2 boards...cheaper, harder to break and retain their value better than kites and means those big gaps you have between kite sizes can be covered easily.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby plummet » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:24 am

DariKite wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:20 am
I’m a beginner and I’m looking for advice on building my kite quiver. I already have a 12m kite. I will travel to Brazil this year and I need to buy a smaller kite to be able to ride in more windy conditions.

While doing research I see that most people rarely have a gap wider than 3 meters (maybe 4m at the most) between each kite. However, I see that some kite models supposedly have a huge wind range.

I was looking at the official Cabrinha Switchblade wind range chart based on a 75kg rider.


2017 Switchblade 75kg Wind Range Oficial.jpg


If I read this chart correctly, for a 75kg rider, a 12m and a 7m Switchblade might be able to cover a range of maybe 9kn to 32kn with only two kites?

The 12m starts with gray color at 9kn and ends at almost 20kn. The 7m starts with gray color at maybe 18kn and ends at maybe 32kn.

There is a 5m gap between them. Does the gray color mean that the rider may feel underpowered/overpowered or uncomfortable at that wind speed? If I wanted to build a quiver for wind speeds between 9kn to 32kn would I be able to accomplish that with 2 kites?

I understand there are endless variables like what board you use, what style of kiteboarding you will be riding, your actual weight and body type, skill level (I don’t plan to be a beginner for ever and will ride above 25kn at some point), etc. But I’d like to know , in general terms, if with current technology it would be reasonable to expect to cover the above wind range with two kites or if one would feel uncomfortable at some point in the above wind range.

If I needed to buy a 3rd kite, should the quiver be 12m, 9m, and 7m? Or maybe if I’m on a budget just get an 8m for now and cover the 9kn to maybe 28kn range without uncomfortable gaps?

Just thought i've point out that 9 knots on a 12m is not achievable at all on a standard TT. If you want quiver to go from 9 to 32 knots for TT you will need from 17m to 7m. It will not be achievable safely with a 2 kite quiver. You will need at least 3 kites and 2 boards. 17m, 11m, 8m. light wind TT, standard TT.

However if you get a little more realistic on the low end then you can achieve a 2 kite quiver from 16 to 32 knots. Perhaps an 11m, 8m.

There is a way to go from 9 to 32 knots with 2 kites. That is to have more boards. 12m and 8m, with hydrofoil and TT/sb will achieve the desired result.

12m will work 9-15 on the foil, 15-24 on the TT
8m will work 10-20 on the foil and 22-32 on the TT.

Now talking about foil decadence, 2m gap is best from 12m down. I run 12,10,8,6,4. And i can say it is glorious indeed.

If you have a bigger than 2m gap you will find a hole in your wind range when you are too powered/underpowered if you want to indulge the same style of riding. The way around this is to have more kites/boards and or be prepared to indulge different styles of riding when different wind conditions present themselves. That way you will not be annoyed by having the wrong sized kite.


On a side note. A beginner should not be attempting 30+ knots at all. That is windy indeed. It is the wind conditions that will send you to hosipital or worse if you pilot the kite incorrectly Sit out high wind sessions until you have a year or 2 of good experience in you. Even then many people are neither comfortable or capable for riding in high winds.


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