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Trying to understand kite quiver

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iriejohn
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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby iriejohn » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:27 pm

A reasonable rule is to have 1.33 gap between kites.

For example, if your smallest kite is 7m then the next sizes up would be 7m x 1.33 = 9m, 9m x 1.33 = 12m, 12m x 1.33 = 16m

Or if your biggest kite is 15m then the next sizes down would be 15m / 1.33 = 11m, 11m / 1.33 = 8m, 8m / 1.33 = 6m

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby Bletti » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:49 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:27 pm
A reasonable rule is to have 1.33 gap between kites.

For example, if your smallest kite is 7m then the next sizes up would be 7m x 1.33 = 9m, 9m x 1.33 = 12m, 12m x 1.33 = 16m

Or if your biggest kite is 15m then the next sizes down would be 15m / 1.33 = 11m, 11m / 1.33 = 8m, 8m / 1.33 = 6m

Yes, I agree with this approach. Board Riding Maui uses this in their newest kites with each kite ~23% larger than the previous. With a foil you can skip a size so 1.66 gap (e.g 4.8m, 8.0m, 13.4m quiver).
Screen Shot 2018-03-28 at 9.42.08 PM.png

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby The Captain » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:11 pm

Those last two posts are great, and it would be nice if more brands were to think a little more carefully about intelligently spacing their sizes.
One point that has to do with physics is that the spacing ratio should get larger with the bigger kites, so 12-18 or even 12-21 (low winds), but would shrink with high wind smaller kites (but matters less as the wind speeds get too crazy anyway).
Remember, you always need the same amount of 'horsepower' from your kite, no matter what the wind speed is. The wind speed/energy graph is not linear. your kite size has to grow bigger faster to capture the same amount of energy from the lower winds. It would need grow in size exponentially if you were trying to kite in lower and lower winds (in theory).
They could figure this out more accurately and design 'lines' of sizes that match energy available for a sizes wind range.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby bragnouff » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:55 pm

tomato wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:55 pm
(...) Small kites will be used so little that you will wonder why did you get them in first place.
Because those are the days that matter. You know, when conditions turn epic, when things get real, those are the days you'd hate not going out because you don't have the right gear.
You'll never remember the days when you couldn't go out because you didn't have a 19m kite.

Get a small kite, kite only, don't need a bar for it, or a pump, get it cheap, keep it over many years, and the handful of sessions you'd get on it each year will truly be memorable (and safe).

12-9-7-5.5-4 is the happy quiver for me

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby knotwindy » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:44 am

These are great posts. The advice I was given and has worked for me was much simpler.
First buy the kite you will use the most, not the one you wish/hope you will be on the most.
Then go up 3m and down 2m.
For lots of folks this ends up starting at 9, then 12 & 7,
Same as what others have said.
Have fun, stay safe, keep it simple & ride hard.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:34 am

tomato wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:55 pm
(...) Small kites will be used so little that you will wonder why did you get them in first place.

I also noted this quote - tomato, sorry, but this statement makes absolute no sense as a general statement, without information about your location and what you ride (OR what you define as small kites, as for some it is below 6-7 m2, for others it is below 10 m2).
Being a beginner it is a TT most likely.

Take CapeTown and surroundings in the summer, here 5-6 m2 on waveboards are the daily norm, sometimes even a 4 or 4.5, and less often you have to ride "big" kites 7 or 8 m2 and never above that.

Around here in Denmark, we use 5 to 8 m2 kites the most, in waves (and ride something else when less wind, so not as windy as CT, we do get the 4 m2 days too occasionally but still very rare)

In other regions in the world, there is hardly never wind for anything below 10 m2, so as said - it depends hugely.

You are still learning you wrote, so things might change - you might get different boards later, t.ex a hydrofoil that very often only require small kites surprisingly fast.

Let alone the weight issue - we are all different, so a 5 m2 for a 45 kg girl corresponds to an 11 m2 for a 95 kg rider.

But I understand you, as we often reply to what we experience ourselves in our own local area, and not in general worldwide, as the latter can be a really different thing.


bragnouff is right too, that even IF you use them rarely, if living in a lower wind area, then for some it might be worth it for these epic days, for others it does not really make sense, personal :naughty:

If I lived in CT and kited in the summer, I could also state "big kites will be used so little or never that you will wonder why did you get them in first place".

8) Peter

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby tomato » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:56 am

.....
Last edited by tomato on Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby tomato » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:03 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:34 am

I also noted this quote - tomato, sorry, but this statement makes absolute no sense as a general statement, without information about your location and what you ride (OR what you define as small kites, as for some it is below 6-7 m2, for others it is below 10 m2).
Being a beginner it is a TT most likely.
I agree with you. It all depends on many things and very relative as you say. Its still hurts to remember that epic day when I show up on the beach and all say I should stay dry, it would be too dangerous with kite sizes I had. Now I am into 3rd year of kiting and looking to buy smaller kite to complement 12 and 9m that I already have. Mainly because I plan to learn to ride SB this summer. But this time I know exactly what kite I want, what specs I am looking for and have a plan to use it. If I would buy 7m at starting- that would be almost waste of money. I would have used it only 1-2 times.

But I wrote as advice for another beginner and assuming that if he's got 12m kite to start- probably lives in less windy area. I just think that at learning phase it is better not to buy too much gear, specially that will be used very rarely. Later- definitely buy small kite, that will sit in garage and wait for a stormy weather.

As you write- it mostly depends on skill, wind conditions, boards (TT, SB or foil) and so on. Plus I still feel as a beginner :) don't take me too seriously.

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby grigorib » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:33 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:27 pm
A reasonable rule is to have 1.33 gap between kites.

For example, if your smallest kite is 7m then the next sizes up would be 7m x 1.33 = 9m, 9m x 1.33 = 12m, 12m x 1.33 = 16m

Or if your biggest kite is 15m then the next sizes down would be 15m / 1.33 = 11m, 11m / 1.33 = 8m, 8m / 1.33 = 6m
Agree with 33% size difference, but there a big but!

Your largest kite will be your lightwind kite and those are unfortunately not made in any size - so you’d need to choose in 13-15-17 numbers

12m is considered by me, and many others as “slow size”. I’m 200 lbs and 11m is plenty sufficient as a regular size

Next step down could be 8m but I’ve chosen the 9m and it’s my favorite jumping machine

So I got to line 7-9-11-15 and I’m pretty happy with it

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Re: Trying to understand kite quiver

Postby iriejohn » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:47 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:33 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:27 pm
A reasonable rule is to have 1.33 gap between kites.

For example, if your smallest kite is 7m then the next sizes up would be 7m x 1.33 = 9m, 9m x 1.33 = 12m, 12m x 1.33 = 16m

Or if your biggest kite is 15m then the next sizes down would be 15m / 1.33 = 11m, 11m / 1.33 = 8m, 8m / 1.33 = 6m
Agree with 33% size difference, but there a big but!

Your largest kite will be your lightwind kite and those are unfortunately not made in any size - so you’d need to choose in 13-15-17 numbers

12m is considered by me, and many others as “slow size”. I’m 200 lbs and 11m is plenty sufficient as a regular size

Next step down could be 8m but I’ve chosen the 9m and it’s my favorite jumping machine

So I got to line 7-9-11-15 and I’m pretty happy with it
It's a rule of thumb.


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