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Firewire Evo versus Vader

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purdyd
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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby purdyd » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:21 pm

omg wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:18 am
In kiting, where do you exactly need the volume that much?
in transitions volume makes difference, as well as area, and where the area and volume is

in particular on the low end, and even on the very high end - also in surf depending on the wave and how fast you ride the wave

on the low end, when you gybe or tack you drop off a plane and then the volume is important

and when you are really powered and want to gybe, too much volume can keep you from settiing the rail and you can bounce out of a turn

on waves you often slow down which is why the thicker surfboard versus a thin board of the same area is generally preferred

the recommendation i have seen, i think it was real kiteboarding on the evo

use the firewire guide for sizing for normal use but if you ride more powered up, go down a size, if you are pushing the low end, go up in size

https://www.realwatersports.com/product ... ire-fst-53

also since the modern planing hull shapes are cutoff in nose and tail, and straighter edges, it is hard to compare with a conventional surfboard based on length and width as far as the range of the board

the volume is a better comparison, in my opinion

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby omg » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:44 pm

I disagree with some points on the above statement. As I wrote, my current board is 14 liters! And I would not want a bigger board. It's more about the outline than thickness. Transitions and low end is really not a problem at all with the board I have. And I ride in low winds too, a lot. I do 360 grabless fronts and backs so I am not a novice rider. Anyways, this has been debated here quite a bit on an earlier thread, so I am not to repeat more than I wrote. However, I would like to know how many of those praising the volume of the board have really ridden the lower volume boards? I am not talking about Nobile "surfboards" but real let's say similar Vader 5'1s with 15 liters and 22 liters, which one would you really prefer when the outlines and rockers are the same? The closer you are to the water the nicer it feels to a certain point. Of course, YMMV.
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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby Strekke » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:55 pm

Interesting opinion above - what board do you ride exaxtly? Or is it a custom?

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby unbob » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:53 pm

purdyd wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:21 pm
omg wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:18 am
In kiting, where do you exactly need the volume that much?
in transitions volume makes difference, as well as area, and where the area and volume is

in particular on the low end, and even on the very high end - also in surf depending on the wave and how fast you ride the wave

on the low end, when you gybe or tack you drop off a plane and then the volume is important

and when you are really powered and want to gybe, too much volume can keep you from settiing the rail and you can bounce out of a turn

on waves you often slow down which is why the thicker surfboard versus a thin board of the same area is generally preferred

the recommendation i have seen, i think it was real kiteboarding on the evo

use the firewire guide for sizing for normal use but if you ride more powered up, go down a size, if you are pushing the low end, go up in size

https://www.realwatersports.com/product ... ire-fst-53

also since the modern planing hull shapes are cutoff in nose and tail, and straighter edges, it is hard to compare with a conventional surfboard based on length and width as far as the range of the board

the volume is a better comparison, in my opinion
Thx for your comments! A lot to chew on there! Also thx for the link to the Evo size chart - yeah, I'm sure that's where I got it earlier.

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby Megabear » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:42 pm

omg wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:44 pm
I disagree with some points on the above statement. As I wrote, my current board is 14 liters! And I would not want a bigger board. It's more about the outline than thickness. Transitions and low end is really not a problem at all with the board I have. And I ride in low winds too, a lot. I do 360 grabless fronts and backs so I am not a novice rider. Anyways, this has been debated here quite a bit on an earlier thread, so I am not to repeat more than I wrote. However, I would like to know how many of those praising the volume of the board have really ridden the lower volume boards? I am not talking about Nobile "surfboards" but real let's say similar Vader 5'1s with 15 liters and 22 liters, which one would you really prefer when the outlines and rockers are the same? The closer you are to the water the nicer it feels to a certain point. Of course, YMMV.
dont forget dimensions determines the volume, that is a 5.1 Vader will have about 22 liters. If you want it to have less litters, you need to change the outline somehow: shorter in either length, wide or thickness. Back in the old days (+10 years ago) people where carving waves with their TT, so you are right it is not a necessity to have that much volume. The main drivers for board dimensions and volume riden in waves, have been pro riders showing whats possible on their own preferred setup (Ben Wilson, Ian Alldredge, Patrick Rebstock etc. ) - essentially people are just copying their setup. So if you are ripping on something smaller put it out there for people to see.

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby Pol Kiter » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:34 am

Hi,

I’m planning to buy a Vader but I’m not sure about the size. I’m 82kg (+harness, wetsuit etc) and will be riding mainly in good waves and well powered (not interested in light wind performance). What would you recommend?

Thanks!
Pol

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby magic%20Ed » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:46 am

5.1

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Re: Firewire EVo versus Vader

Postby atomic-chomik » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:56 am

So I'm waffling on a Vader size issue. Found an affordable used 5'6 vader- I'm 90kg plus wetsuit. Too big? Any comments?

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Re: Firewire Evo versus Vader

Postby Alysum » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:19 am

Has anyone manager to get an Evo in Australia lately ? Apparently it's not imported anymore ?

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Re: Firewire Evo versus Vader

Postby Onda » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:32 pm

I have the 5.1 Vader (and had the 5.3 Vader, 5.1 Evo, 5.2 Vanguard).
Recently bought the Pro Wam in 5.10 (25.4 liters).
I´m 75 kg
The 5.1 Vader is ideal for 75-80 kg I´d say. The 5.3 felt slightly big (long) for me, but still OK.

If you want to ride decent waves (from head-high) I wouldn´t recommend the Vader or other "no-nose" shapes. A more classic shape is better (more comfortable / stable at high speeds, smoother turns, less prone to nose-dives).
I´m particularly stunned by the Pro Wam (in larger waves). Super smooth ride, super stable at high speeds, still easy to hack cutbacks (not as easy as with the Vader though). The Pro Wam looks boring by its shape, but this board is really, really great. The 5.10 is a little big for me, 5.8 would be ideal - hard to get your hands on one, all sold out and no used ones on the market in Germany.
The Vader is ideal for small waves (up to head-high) and for freestyle / jumping (the "Helium" version is super light, mine is only 2.9 kg including tail pad and front pad).
Vader has unbeatable upwind performance and very early planning for its size. It is super agile and can be ridden very aggressivly in turns / cutbacks effortlessly.


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