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Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:18 pm
by FLandOBX
RickI wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:51 pm
I picked up the 19 m Contra as my lower end go to kite for this year. I have been happy with the range and performance. I weigh 84 kg (185 lbs.) and use a variety of board lengths depending on just how light the winds are. You should be happy with the 19 m, I am. It feels/flys like a smaller kite with good turning speed and reasonable bar pressure. I used a 17 m Apollo as my largest, low end kite last year.
Hope I won't be hijacking this thread too much by asking RickI how the Contra 19 m compares with the Apollo 17 m (16??) as a dedicated light wind kite. I've seen the on-line comparisons and am inclined to think the Contra is preferable for that niche. However, I am totally enjoying the Apollo in higher winds (12 m, 9 m, 7 m), and feel like the largest Apollo would be a fine light wind kite for dedicated hooked-in flat-water riding. (Note to RickI: I didn't know the Apollo came in sizes above 16 m??)

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:19 pm
by RickI
You are correct, my mistake, it was a 16 m Apollo. The 2018 Contra 19 m has more lower end grunt than the 2017 Apollo 16 m as might be expected. Despite the greater size the 19 m Contra has a smaller kite feel keeping things fun and functional. The wind range on both kites is good particularly the upper end with the 2017 Apollo. As a generality, I believe the 2018 Contra has a stronger lower end than the 2017 Apollo.
FLandOBX wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:18 pm
RickI wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:51 pm
I picked up the 19 m Contra as my lower end go to kite for this year. I have been happy with the range and performance. I weigh 84 kg (185 lbs.) and use a variety of board lengths depending on just how light the winds are. You should be happy with the 19 m, I am. It feels/flys like a smaller kite with good turning speed and reasonable bar pressure. I used a 17 m Apollo as my largest, low end kite last year.
Hope I won't be hijacking this thread too much by asking RickI how the Contra 19 m compares with the Apollo 17 m (16??) as a dedicated light wind kite. I've seen the on-line comparisons and am inclined to think the Contra is preferable for that niche. However, I am totally enjoying the Apollo in higher winds (12 m, 9 m, 7 m), and feel like the largest Apollo would be a fine light wind kite for dedicated hooked-in flat-water riding. (Note to RickI: I didn't know the Apollo came in sizes above 16 m??)

Image
Traveling with the 2017 16 m Apollo expecting light wind conditions and they were light!


Image
Another time traveling with the 2017 12 m Apollo in Hawaii and taking advantage of a particularly good upper end in this session off Shipwrecks at Lanai.

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:01 pm
by badgb21
I had a 15m and a 17m Contra.
15m was by far my favored kite and I'm 116Kg
17m was just park and ride, an OK kite, but offered only very little extra low end.

If you get a chance try the 15m Contra at your weight I wouldn't go bigger, diminishing returns.

Good luck with whatever you go for.





quote=Björn post_id=1020783 time=1531312928 user_id=95881]
Hello,

I need some help:

86-88kg freerider living at a lightwind spot with normally 6-7-8 up to 15-16 knots. I have a TT 145x45.

Should I go for the Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Thanks a lot

BR//Björn
[/quote]

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:45 pm
by RickI
I had forgotten I had put this video together several months back shortly after I started using the 2018 Cab. 19 m Contra. I learned the hard way about big kites and impaired ability to build apparent wind in the early days like a lot of us. Larger kite area wasn't very efficient or much fun if it flew too slowly. My 16.9 m Airblast from the early 2000's exemplified this problem, it was just too slow, had high bar pressure. I would have hesitated not too many years ago to get a 19 m kite although I have favored larger kites 15 to 17 m for our lighter SE Florida winds for a long time. Fortunately, I had demo'd the 19 m Contra and had no significant doubts about what I was getting. If you can demo the kite I would and form your own impressions about the current kite design. Things are changing in some cases fortunately for us. https://vimeo.com/262489510


Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:14 pm
by FLandOBX
RickI wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:19 pm
... The 2018 Contra 19 m has more lower end grunt than the 2017 Apollo 16 m as might be expected. Despite the greater size the 19 m Contra has a smaller kite feel keeping things fun and functional. The wind range on both kites is good particularly the upper end with the 2017 Apollo. As a generality, I believe the 2018 Contra has a stronger lower end than the 2017 Apollo.
All very helpful. Thanks RickI. :thumb:

I see a lot of 15m and 17m Contras at my launch sites, but rarely a 19m. I suspect that's due to the fewer production years for the 19m, plus possibly an "intimidation factor" (i.e., people just shy away from kites as large as 19m, except perhaps for the larger foil kites). Your comment that the "19m Contra has a smaller kite feel" is interesting (smaller feel presumably because of its lower aspect ratio/less breadth). I will look for a chance to demo the 19m Contra.

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:38 am
by RickI
Try to hook up with Damo LeRoy during one of his demo's or perhaps Kitty Hawk KItes could set you up? Btw, my 16.9 m Airblast had a flat area of 23 m, larger than my hang glider at the time and was a "sky brick." Times move on fortunately, some large kites can be faster than you may imagine.

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:00 pm
by bkkite
SolarSet wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm
bkkite wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:00 pm
I'm 90kg and I ride a 146cm slingshot misfit. I used to ride a 17m Turbine, and what I found that it was really slow, and then super grunty. As soon as the wind picked up, I was immediately ripped off my line.
Can you write at what kts Turbine 17 was overpowered? I'm same weight and was choosing between Contra and Turbine 17m, from what I see Contra has higher wind range and better low end but Turbine has better high end as high aspect ratio and 5-strut contraction.

Turbines are on sale something like 200-300$ cheaper than contra

I'm looking to use this kite with with my 10 and 14m switchblade and NHP 138x43 or 143x48, if happy with 17m I might change 14m to 13m
I bought the Turbine too because of price, that’s part of the reason I’m offering up that caution.

The 17m Turbine tended to get overpowered at 16-17kts, but where it really struggled was the gusts. My 19m Core has a lot wider range than that 17m. I would just finish sessions with no skin on my hands , a sore back, and tired arms from the bar pressure on the Turbine.

I’d recommend riding both and getting a feel for yourself. Core was the brand that I was able to demo easily because people around me are riding them, but I’m sure there are other brands out there that do the same ( the 18m Juice from North was also a great light wind kite ). When I shared my experience with others, lots of people confirmed that Slingshots tend to ride that way

Re: Cabrinha Contra 17 or 19m?

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:46 pm
by grigorib
bkkite wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:00 pm
...
The 17m Turbine tended to get overpowered at 16-17kts, but where it really struggled was the gusts. My 19m Core has a lot wider range than that 17m. I would just finish sessions with no skin on my hands , a sore back, and tired arms from the bar pressure on the Turbine.
...
16-17 knots means white caps. That’s when 11m is a perfect size for a 90kg guy. I rode 5m in that wind with a foil, just for reference.

For me at same weight the 17m Turbine is too big at any wind speed, the 15m was perfect. I’m sure 15m XR LW would do great too and cost 3x more since Cores are never on sale