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What does true mean for you?

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sabraxas
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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby sabraxas » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:58 pm

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:43 pm
Haha. This thread has gotten very weird.

Boards and More started using the claim "True Kiteboarding" in 2010/2011 Those who claim it's 'marketing bullshit' aren't necessarily wrong, but they're not necessarily right. I actually credit the brand claim "True" as more or less creating the brand you've known as North for the past several years and now know as Duotone. There's some pretty good history behind it if you're actually curious what it means/where it came from...

B&M (who produced under the brand "North Kiteboarding" through 2018, and is now launching Duotone Kiteboarding going forward) really doesn't like loss leaders. They were a bit bull headed about that kind of thing for a while, but around 2011 when we were really emerging as the solid market leader we made the decision that if we were going to be the market leader we had to act like it. The idea of "True" was basically the CEO/brand managers way of committing to supporting all aspects of the sport and our team, even those on the fringes of the sport, whose products we knew weren't going to produce profits. At a time that a lot of brands were focusing on one single freeride kite that would produce the most sales by catering to the largest, freeride, section of the market, we decided that to be True we needed to commit to several different aspects of the sport.

In 2011 we introduced "True: 10 years of North Kiteboarding". While it can be considered marketing, the expense of this book was light years beyond what the marketing department would consider reasonable. And inside the book we tried to stay true to the history of kiteboarding... We give kudos to Cabrinha and the early bow kite, F One and the Delta-C design and mention many other brands and ambassadors besides our own. This book is actually a nice little piece of history and I still get occasional 'thanks' emails from random customers who still enjoy the book.

In 2012 we went ahead with a wake boot project... These were clearly never going to result in a profit, but no other kite company was making production boots and we wanted to support our team and those who were pushing what was then a pretty fringe market. A year later we continued this move by designing a wakestyle bar, again, a project that would never result in profits, but showed that we were helping support all the different ways the market was diverging.

I like to think that in the larger picture this "True" claim has been a net positive for our company, however we've definitely lost a lot of money because of it as well... besides the losses that I consider successes such as the book and the wakestyle products we've lost our asses on several raceboards, race kites, an ill-advised early attempt at foils (the more recent ones are fantastic, I'm talking about the weird shaped one from 2014 that was great in theory but never caught on) etc.

So as I said, you can make fun of it, and you can call it marketing bullshit, and I won't say you're wrong, but as someone who watched it turn the mentality of the entire company and bring about several projects/products that I personally am very glad exist I think it's actually been a huge benefit to the entire industry.

If anyone has any questions on it feel free to ask me. Sorry if this bored anyone, just thought people might be curious where the whole "True" thing came from and what it means to us as a company.

-Dan
Thanks Dan.
True is that Boards and more has been producing kites and boards from the very first time, and since 2013 B&M has been sold to another group, and from 5 years ago till date they have nothing to do with North Sails, but the name. ¿What has change now? Nothing but the name.

True is that Rebel has made its own way, and it has its own name. Same for Vegas, Evo, Dice. I dont call them North kites, I call them by the name of the model.

True is that I began kiteboarding in 2005 with Wipika Amp, and didnt know what was a real kite till i bought one Rhino with 5th line. HUGE difference with all the others brands. Since them, I owned almost 20 different kites of the old North and i loved each one of them. Rhinos, Rebels, Vegas, Evo, Fuse. I still own a brand new 2004 Rhino. Top quality construction.

True is that i owned another kite brands, Cabrinhas, OR, Best, Naish, etc, and tested another dozen of brands. But i always return to my Rebels.

True is that a Ferrari is a Ferrari. It feels like a Ferrari. You may like it or not. It could be betters cars, but the guy who loves his Ferrari doesnt want another car but his own.

True is that Star Wars saga withouth Darth Vader, C3PO, Chewie, Han Solo, R2D2, could be a very good movie. Or not. But all those characters built the real movie.

True is that i can go on with a changed name. But i cannot go on without the models i love.

What did i love from North kiteboarding? An empty name or the real models i´ve been flying for more than a decade?

Welcome Duotone. Good bye North. Thanks for your services :thumb:

:bye:

PS: As classical models, you should customize the year. I do not want an 2018 4 lines Rebel. I want a brand new 5th line 2014 0km Rebel. With 2011 Rebel, one of the best.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby mr_daruman » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:36 pm

Truly experienced kiteboarders dont care about brand. Especially brands that design their gear just around their gear.
Just want good quality customisable gear. I use different brand model bar, with different brand lines on different brand kites. Whatever works best for my riding style.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby Toby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:12 pm

mr_daruman wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:36 pm
Truly experienced kiteboarders dont care about brand. Especially brands that design their gear just around their gear.
Just want good quality customisable gear. I use different brand model bar, with different brand lines on different brand kites. Whatever works best for my riding style.
I truly agree!
Couldn't care less about the brand of they only build what I need!
Currently riding a 2012 board and bar with a 2015 kite.
Would love to ride latest gear, but only if it does perform like my old stuff.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby SaltWaterDog » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:59 pm

Are “truly experienced kiteboarders” representative of the market as a whole? Nope.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby Ludmil » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:23 pm

Hey Dan, maybe not using "True" will be better...Btw you've been claiming technical details for years as "invented by North", who is going to use these innovations now?
I wonder, are you sure "True" claims are not considered as disloyal competition (deceptive business practice) in different countries?
Still though, I believe you've done your homework. :)
Don't get me wrong, I wish you success under the new brand.
L.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby Toby » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:30 pm

Again, only the name changes. Everything else stays with B&M. They have patented and trademarked all.

If someone speaks in the past “from” “by”
North it is B&M !!!

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby SaltWaterDog » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:52 pm

The “true kiteboarding” thing is exactly what my previous comments have addressed. This is the branding game at work and those who think consumers behave rationally just don’t know the facts. If we were all homoeconomicus then economists would be gods and clearly, they’re not.

Let’s take an obvious and extreme example in the branding game. Apple. No one plays the game better than Apple and the proof of this is in their inferior product. Macs are slower, more expensive, have less 3rd party software and fewer peripherals than their pc counterparts. Despite this, your average 20 something university student will happily live off canned tuna and pasta with ketchup year round and still drop 2000 dollars on a Mac even when they know that in some instances they could get twice as much pc bang for their buck. That is the branding game at work.

Old North played this game and did it well, Duotone is going all out because they know they have to but they no longer have the name. The brand is everything and anyone who tells you different doesn’t understand the game. I’m not saying Duotone will be dead and buried, I’m just saying they won’t be like old North. That kind of domination is highly unlikely when you have to relinquish the name that got you to the top of the pile.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby Ludmil » Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:54 pm

Toby, you didn't get the context ( or maybe I didn't put it correctly)
Sure they(B&M), will use everything which is patented and their intellectual property.
However, using "by North" for years
could bring complexity for using it now.
Will sound like: "Invented by Duotone when was North"... ? :)

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby bjw » Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:21 am

This is the dirtiest, most blatent pimp thread I've ever read.

I need a shower after reading it.

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Re: What does true mean for you?

Postby dlangpap » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:24 am

alexeyga wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:39 pm
In this case it means that somebody has screwed up the new brand's name and now are trying too hard.
Give this man a like!


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