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Do all kites invert equally?

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galewarning
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby galewarning » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:02 pm

Guess I should clarify my statements, I've probably inverted just every kite I've owned, but it has always happened because I dropped and tumbled the kite. Funny how almost all my kitemares happen when I drop a kite and have lots of line slack... :wink:
However, I've never had a kite invert while flying. Hope I never do.
I can see how owning a kite that inverts while flying would cause a bit of loathing...

Edit: And if anyone has a consistent technique to un-invert a kite, besides cussing and tugging on the lines haphazardly like I do, please share...
Peter_Frank wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:27 am
...Here is an old clip with an example - it seems underinflated and could be the reason but the principle is the same for those prone to inverting.
Difficult to see as it starts outside the view - but what happens is the kite inverts in high winds when dived starting and becomes a live pretzel :o
...
8) Peter

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:45 pm

kitelife wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:23 pm
kitexpert wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:00 pm
Yes, don't try to fix that when out. Unnecessary and possible dangerous. Really inverted kite is when it is twisted so that lower surface and struts are above and facing the sky. I've seen that happen couple of times, in one occasion kiter just struggled back to shore with his shitty flying INVERTED kite. That was well done :) Other one used QR and packed his kite in low water.
I’ve seen the same. Kiter rode it back to shore inverted.
InvertedKite.jpg
InvertedKite.jpg (28.88 KiB) Viewed 1205 times
Happened to me before, and happened again to me yesterday, same old crossbow kite in the photo except a 12m. Rode quad fin strapless surfboard for an hour, gusty and kept ramping up so had kite high. Picked up with bigger gusts/lulls, fully depowered, kite lowered in a lull then clips a wave and tumbles. As I slow to a stop, I see the kite getting washed in 5’ wind waves. When lines tension again the kite pulls thru bridles inverted. I’m a half mile out from shore so I decide to let the kite drag me closer before going for my safety. Had to reverse bar L/R sides to control the inverted kite. Saw anchor buoy downwind so I tried to get the kite in the air to avoid or at least see any tangle. Surprised, it flew overhead, and continued dragging me in inverted. Closer to shore, I put the kite on water ready to pull safety with enough time to crawl up the center/safety line to the kite before it reaches the beach. Next surprise, kite washed in the waves and ends up un-inverted, but I re-launched it to see it was torn TE to near LE. When flying this time the steering lines were wrapped inside the center lines. Pulled the safety before the kite ripped fully in two. The LE and all struts were still pumped hard.

Take Away#1: Expect a kite may invert if wave washed and/or hitting the water at speed and tumbling.

Take Away#2: Flying a kite inverted may have bridle lines against the canopy and may tear fabric. It will not be fully controllable and/or could start looping.

Take Away#3: It may be possible to un-invert your kite if you re-crash it into big waves but it will increase the chances your kite gets damaged.

Take Away #4: Twin Tip riding overpowered you probably can dig in and jump or slow to stop. On a tri-fin round/pin tail surfboard you probably can point upwind hard to drag/slide the tail out. But, a quad fin wide tail surfboard turns slower and instead of sliding may only track and pick up speed.

Take Away#5: Avoid anchor buoys at all costs, or things could get way worse…

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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby Onda » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:05 pm

Go for wave or foil specific kites!
I´m riding wave kites only (and the Naish Boxer 2019) since many years and I haven´t managed to invert any of these even when driving into the kite (straight down the wave in cross-onshore wind) like a total noob.
A good wave / foil kite will never invert, even during slackest of lines. It will simply sink down vertically like a helicopter without tilting. I can promise this behaviour for the Reo, Religion and Boxer! Absolutely kook-proof :thumb:
I´ve had several situations when I thought: Oh shit, this was it! But the kite simply sunk down until the lines got tensioned again and on it went :D
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby madworld » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:14 pm

Cabrinha and slingshot are notorious for inverting, Naish, Ocean rodeo do not invert. Old North not sure.
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:17 pm

I don't think all kites invert equally. Has a lot to do with how balanced the kite is when slack line. There was definitely less thought put into this aspect of LEI design before wave kites and the concept of Drift emerged as an important quality. Kites were designed for tight lines and were front heavy when lines went slack, the front edge fell hindenburging the kite LE down. Was such a common term in the early days that you really don't read much anymore. If and when a kite falls this way and has a ways to go downwind while on the water, they can tumble and end up inverted. Might be some distinction between true inversion where the lines retention and the kite is literally inside out, or is normal just has rolled through the lines and the rears are now running through the fronts then up to the kite. Things have improved and the lighter and better balanced a kite the more likely it is to simply fall back in the window when slack lined and continue on like nothing happened. I think there is also an experience component as I have to think back pretty far to the last time this happened. It just stopped after a half decade or so of experience.
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby Matteo V » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:24 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:17 pm
I don't think all kites invert equally. Has a lot to do with how balanced the kite is when slack lines.
No, other factors like how clean the wind is, waaaaay more of a factor. I had a 2013 Best "Kahoona" 7.5.....Not just invert, nor bow tie.........it straight up "oragamied" on me, into a beach ball, in the sky above me. Sat on the water for 300meters, and I got to land, and "un-oragamied it by hand.

Inland winds suck.
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:50 pm

Yea, I meant my kite was inverted, flying strut side up (not just inverted lines). Like after the downwind crash in this video starting at 2:37



Hope he got an assisted landing, otherwise it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had pulled his FLS. Noticed when he was flying inverted he also had to reverse his L/R bar sides. Thinking that my next 12m might just have to be wave kite :thumb:

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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby kitelife » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:15 pm

madworld wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:14 pm
Cabrinha and slingshot are notorious for inverting, Naish, Ocean rodeo do not invert. Old North not sure.
Never had a slingshot RPM (pre 2019) invert. The hybrid c shape makes it pretty difficult to happen. I have inverted a slingshot rally. It relaunched inside out just like the crossbow photo.

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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby OFK » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:26 pm

This thread has been eye-opening. I thought inversion was inversion, but some comments on here have helped clarify. What I apparently experienced in my early days was line inversion. This I am pretty sure i could correct on the water now, but I can't remember it happening in years. As others have noted this may be due to better kites or better skills or both. This past month, HOWEVER, I have had two major inversions with my newly purchased Gong Strutless 11meter. These are not line inversions nor would i say a full kite inversion like one photo earlier in this thread shows. What i have experienced ( twice in only 5 sessions made with this NEW kite ), I would assume would have to be labelled, a half kite inversion. I recreated on land in photo ( discussed in another thread on Gong Strutless V4 ). There is no easy fix for this, although, I have theories I will try when it likely happens again. Inflation recommendation is 8-10 psi and I had it at 8.25 psi. Will try higher inflations, but both times this half inversion occurred after trying to recover from a backstall in light winds by pulling hard on front lines. This technique has served me well on all my other kites, but these strutless Gongs apparently have no appetite for that maneuver.

Oh, and if you're wondering. No, if this happens in light winds ( like it did to me ) and in that configuration, you are not flying it anywhere... you are swimming.
.
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Re: Do all kites invert equally?

Postby IWantToFly » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:53 pm

Interesting timing on this thread for me. This weekend I was flying a friend's 10m Slingshot Rally and had my first ever inversion in quite gusty conditions. It happens to my friends a lot and their response is "Rally's are prone to invert." I was able to body drag to shore with the kite inverted, but it was a small shallow lake. I wouldn't have wanted to deal with it in a place with more serious consequences. As someone posted early in this thread, if this happened to me more than once I'd be looking for a different kite!


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