Help with Ben Wilson Surf Slow Leak

[bradleygood]

Hi Everyone,

I just took my first lesson 2 weeks ago in the outer banks and then bought some used equipment.

The kite has a slow leak and I'm having trouble locating it. I've watched lots of videos. I've done the spraying of the dish soap and water and found nothing. I sprayed the valves and connections also. Today I took out each strut bladder one by one and dunked them into the tub. Still nothing. So then I went to take out the leading edge bladder, pushed the main 2 valves thru and then got to the connections at the struts. Do these just push thru? I tried and they seem really tight and I don't want to break it. Just want to be sure.

Also - any ideas on what else to check on this kite - the tube connections to the struts have this white tape looking stuff on the inserts - Should I replace that? What is it?

It holds air for a couple of hours.

Below are some pictures. Thanks for the help!

[dylan*]

Slingshot valves between the bladders? So I'm guessing a repair was made at some point with different valves and there could be a slow leak somewhere in there, I've had this happen before where it's impossible to find any kind of a leak, and it even stayed inflated overnight with no air loss, but will become soft in the air within 20-30 minutes of flying it. Really frustrating.

If that's the case, the fix is to take the valves off and (if you can) glue them back down, or get new stick-on valves. Kind of pricy at $15-20 each if you don't know which valve is causing the problem (if the valves are the problem in the first place).

One other thing you can check is the ends of the leading edge, if you havent already. Maybe the ends are folded over in such a way that they prevent air from escaping except under certain conditions. Though if you've pulled the whole LE bladder out, you probably would have found a leak there if it existed.

Maybe there is a crack in the black tubes that connect the LE to the struts... though the rubber looks really good and not dry and cracked so this probably isn't an issue either, just another place to check since you've already looked at each individual bladder.

I probably wouldn't worry too much about the white stuff on the connectors, it might be some kind of adhesive to help the tubes stick, but I've never seen this used, usually there is just a plastic collar or a zip tie, and that is plenty to hold it on there without any kind of adhesive. I'd only worry about it if it feels like the connection is kind of loose, so that there could be air escaping somewhere in there. If that's the case just a simple small zip tie (like the one you already have in one of the pictures) will fix it

if you can't figure it out you can send your kite to Airtime and let them deal with it: https://www.airtimekite.com/

The noise is a pretty old kite at this point, so valve issues are not really surprising. The canopy itself can have a pretty long life, but the glue that holds stuff together can start to go bad especially if ever left in a hot car (even once is enough sometimes), or left in the sun on the beach for too long too many times (consider that the bladders are right under black fabric)... this stuff is not that unusual. one reason to buy newer kites, unless you dont mind fixing them or having them fixed.

[alfredo68]

pump hard the kite, get into a swimming pool with it and start searching the leak

[FLandOBX]

Hey, bradleygood. Welcome to the sport.

Dylan's advice is good. Here are a few other thoughts.

The one-pump strut connectors on your leading edge bladder should push through when you take out the bladder. Often, there is a lip at the base of the plastic connector that holds it securely to the leading edge. Sometimes you'll need to begin pushing on one side of the connector to disengage the lip before the connector comes free. Some kites also have a velcro ring around inflate-deflate valves to secure them to the inside of the leading edge. It's possible that a one-pump connector could have velcro holding it securely in place. Bottom line is don't be afraid to use some force to disengage the connector from the leading edge.

The "white tape" you're seeing is probably plumber's acrylic tape, which some people use to ensure an air-tight connection. You can find it at any hardware store (plumbing section). If you use zip ties, as Dylan suggests, you probably don't need the acrylic tape. The fact that you're seeing it makes me think those connectors might have leaked in the past.

When you take out bladders and dunk them into a tub, make sure you inflate them fairly taut. Don't over-inflate (and explode) them, but make sure there's enough air to force the leak into action. I had a slow leak on a strut bladder a few weeks ago, and the first time I checked in a tub, I couldn't find it. After pumping the bladder some more, the leak appeared. If your kite is good for a few hours, then your leak may just be a pin-hole that isn't always apparent.

[juandesooka]

I have bws kites....yes the hard plastic strut valve connectors push through the holes. Tight fit. Even worse putting them back in.

I am guessing you don't have bladders pumped enough to detect tiny leak. It is towards uncomfortably pumped to find a pinhole. Dunking in calm shallow water is easiest way. (Can also do it with bladder in kite, to isolate section tgat has it) Also sometimes you can find a leak with air against your face vs seeing it.

Btw once you pump it up and close strut valves, you can isolate if leak is in leading edge or strut; then don't worry about the others.

Finally....if it remains difficult. ...contact bws. They may still have old bladders on clearance. ...maybe as cheap as $40. Quick solution and then have a spare

[Jzh_perth]

I’ve just had a similar issue with a 2016 Aeneema I bought secondhand. They have a Boston style deflate valve which consists of 2 parts. A rubber o ring was missing, resulting in a slow leak from the valve itself. Hard to detect via the usual methods

[bradleygood]

Hey thanks for all the replies and the welcome! I'm excited about the sport but this is a real damper. When I bought the kite from Real Water Sports in Salvo, NC the guy told me a really great story about how they do a 15 point check and leave it pumped up for 8 hours - I had asked about leaks....he also said it was easy to fix individual parts etc. I thought it would be OK if I had to deal with a couple of issues - I'm used to repairing bike tubes and everything about bikes and am very handy. But I didn't expect that there would be the situation of not being able to find the leak. My first reaction is that I should send this back to Real and get my money back. Then buy a new kite. Like I said, I thought everything was fixable. I have learned a good lesson. I don't want this headache. If it was easily identifiable and fixable I'd be all game, to learn how to do it and gain the experience. So I'm writing this post to see if I should try anything else or just send it back. So here is some more information.

About pumping the bladders hard - When I pump them up, and remove the pump, how would I keep it hard? I was quickly putting my thumb over the hole and when dunking into the tub I'd squeeze it really hard because I knew about pinholes. Now that I'm writing this I guess I could put the tube back on and close the pinch valve and then I'd know if there was a leak in that area too. Is that it? This brings up another point. When I had the kite fully inflated, I did close all of the strut valves and it still lost air and I can't remember exactly but it seemed like it was softer everywhere so I think those strut valves leak past them internally to the other chamber (LE) and vice versa. Another reason to send it back.

I don't have a swimming pool to use.

The plumbing tape - I have not heard of acrylic. I just know teflon plumbers tape. Is that what you mean? I thought it was that at first but it does not look the same, teflon tape stays like tape and you can even remove it most of the time. This looks more like it molded and melted to the surface and thinner than teflon tape. It does not look like it would remove easily. Like one of you said, it is a sign to me that this kite had issues before in this area.

Thanks for the info about pushing the valves thru the LE. I guess once I got it out I could put the hoses on and close the strut valves and pump it up hard and look for leaks. I have not had the LE bladder out. So that may be the last thing I try. Also, the whole revelation I just had about using the tubes with the valves closed may be worth the second try. If what I'm saying makes sense - pump it up thru the tube, close the valve, remove the pump, dunk in tub. Is that what I should do?

I might do all of this tomorrow since I work from home and either way I will learn something. I like getting real experience.

I know Airtime has a quote thing...just wondering what you guys would guess the price range for the repair would be? Not sure I'd ever do it since I can send it back to Real but just curious.

Thanks for the help!

[juandesooka]

Returning it: if you are unsatisfied and this should have been found in testing, then it should be full $ back, with them picking up shipping. REAL is solid, I am sure they'd offer. But this is probably easily fixed if you are stoked on the kite and want to keep it. 90% of bladder repairs are 10-15 minutes max.

Your response helps to diagnose the issue. By pumping it up, crimping strut valves closed, and the LE deflating, you have identified the leak is in leading edge. You can then pump it up hard and then use soapy water on the leading edge to see if you can identify where on LE the hole is ... this helps narrow down the problem, sometimes means you don't need to remove entire bladder ... though if you've already done this and found nothing, it just means the pinhole is too small to detect.

You need to remove the bladder from kite. Follow Ben's advice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGda7xiqon4

Once out, you crimp the strut valves closed with hose and crimp (you were correct on that step).

Pump it up fairly hard ... not too hard, as no support from kite means it could pop ... but has to be hard enough that pinholes will blow air.

Use soapy water to look for bubbles. Or if you have a kiddie pool, can dunk it in sections (or in a large rubbermaid tote). If in a quiet windless place, can also listen for hisses, run your face along it feeling for air puffs (which sounds odd, but is sometimes the most effective way).

When you find the hole, circle it with a jiffy, wash it off with alcohol swipe, tape on some Type A tear aid, pump it up and test -- often there's more than 1 pin hole.

And there you go ... welcome to the start of your kiting career, unless you buy new and turn them over quick, expect to do this once or more a year from now til forever.

[JZ perth: I think his kite is Noise version, before they had boston valves.....but I had same issue as you, was stoked when I realized the quick fix, but bummed at not having my 8m working in maui for something so easy!]

[bradleygood]

Thanks for encouraging me to take another look. I am going camping near the shore soon so would like to get it going if I can. I removed the leading edge bladder today and pumped it up hard. Then did the face thing and also just looked at it carefully with my readers on. Looks good and nothing detected. So then I dunked it in the tub moving slowly one small section at a time and nothing. I left it in the hall upstairs now for about 5 hours and its still holding - seems to be the same. I'm going to leave it until tomorrow after work and then if it is still holding I'm going to work on the strut bladders next, which are already all out of the kite. I will use the tubes and pinch valves and pump those up good. Stay tuned!

[juandesooka]

dang! I hoped that the water bath would find it easy. Did you also try the soapy water on it? Got to try everything!
Another thing to try: dunk each of the valve connectors, and give them a little wiggle. When the valves start to delaminate, it can be one of those loose connection things where it bends at just the right angle to let air out, then when not at that angle it is airtight.

I looked on BWS website....looks like they don't sell the noise classic bladders any more. Though you can email to see if they have some left over. If not, and if you can't find the leak, then you may want to contact REAL about return ... as your only other option would be to send to a pro or an after-market bladder replacement, from AirTIme etc.