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Casualty in Sicily

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kite_hh
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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby kite_hh » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:41 am

RickI wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:50 pm
Image
[...]
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=2372851
Thank you for posting this. I did not know and it is a scary yet interesting read.

I stumbled over this paragraph: "People left right and centre were trying to fire their safety but the load was to much to fire off from Naish to slingy not people where on their knees going across the beach tugging with both hands at the safety yet nothing!"

I have two questions regarding this sentence:

1. Does "fire the safety" mean using the quick release to get the kite to flag out or is it the complete separation of the kite?

2. I was unaware there could be such a thing as "too much load". I was assuming both ejection mechanisms (quick release as well as complete ejection) work fine even under immense load. I am not doubting what is reported, nevertheless I would be interested if this is something I should be worried about, something that should be adfressed or may even be solved. Is this info still valid 8 years later?

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby TomW » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:10 pm

It's amazing only 1 person was killed or injured if the video is indeed from the spot and incident.
It's a sorry state for his family.

I look at that video and have a visceral reaction to it. There's no way I would even stand outside with that approaching. It would be Difficult if out on the water. I'd probably eject kite on the water and drift with leashed kite, then be ready to release the leash if kite gets picked up.

My local spot, I'd have seen it coming and been on beach with kite packed down. Or more likely, I wouldn't even be kiting because the forecast/radar would have told me there's a risk for thunderstorms.

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RickI
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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby RickI » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:24 am

1. Does "fire the safety" mean using the quick release to get the kite to flag out or is it the complete separation of the kite?

I believe it is analogous to flagging the kite out although not all kites take that approach any more. I started calling it "emergency depowering" the kite some years back given the variability in approaches. I don't believe he meant to release the kite entirely.

2. I was unaware there could be such a thing as "too much load". I was assuming both ejection mechanisms (quick release as well as complete ejection) work fine even under immense load. I am not doubting what is reported, nevertheless I would be interested if this is something I should be worried about, something that should be adfressed or may even be solved. Is this info still valid 8 years later?

Since the French developed the AFNOR NF S52-503 standard for kitesurf quick releases and the compliance of most mainstream manufacturers I thought this was a thing of the past as well. That is when the bar manufacturers got on board with the standard. It could be 2010 predated some compliance and of course the kites in use could have been older too.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby pmaggie » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:05 am

I'm not an expert of bars but my Core bar seems to be totally unaware of load The release mechanism is rotative and does not "depend" on the chicken loop load, they are two completely separate thing. There's no relation between the rotation of the safety mechanism and the CL load, once the safety rotates the CL is released. It's like opening a trap. I'm not saying is a 100% safe system, there are of course other things you have to care (sand, corrosion, etc.) but if the system is in perfect conditions it will for sure work under any load.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby Palmolife » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Hey guys, I was right there on the scene when this awful and tragic accident happened. I was the one performeing CPR on this person.. Until today I am still struggling with this incident which was quite traumatizing. I found this thread somehow by accident. Although this tragic incident happened a couple of months ago I would like to clarify that a lot of speculation is going on and no one here really seems to know what exactly happened on that day.

So if you are interested I am willing to recall this accident and share what was really happening. It's not an easy task since it's quite emotional to me, but I am willing to do so because I think a lot can be learned.

Stay safe!

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby Toby » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:35 pm

Thank you. Please provide us with the real causes of this accident. And hopefully we all can learn from it.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby matth » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Palmolife wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:20 pm
Hey guys, I was right there on the scene when this awful and tragic accident happened. I was the one performeing CPR on this person.. Until today I am still struggling with this incident which was quite traumatizing. I found this thread somehow by accident. Although this tragic incident happened a couple of months ago I would like to clarify that a lot of speculation is going on and no one here really seems to know what exactly happened on that day.

So if you are interested I am willing to recall this accident and share what was really happening. It's not an easy task since it's quite emotional to me, but I am willing to do so because I think a lot can be learned.

Stay safe!

If you can please do. I hate reading about accidents but I believe we can all learn and it helps raise awarness how to be a safer kiting...I pesonally will not kite on certain days while many of my friends do, I hate nasty, gusty wind and anything beyond 40mph....

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby foilholio » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:46 pm

matth wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:19 am
Slappysan wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:03 pm
The thing about squalls is that the most dangerous place to be when they hit is near land so getting off the water when you see one approaching can be more dangerous than just going out to open water with nothing downwind.

It wasn't a squall but one time when I was out on my 10m and the winds picked up to 35-40 knots instead of trying to land I opted to sit in shallow water with nothing downwind of me for over 10 minutes until the wind dipped back down to 30 knots and I could safely land.

Exactly....or pucnh out and drift in.
Double exactly, this advice will save your life. Hard things will kill you much easier than water. If a bad squall is coming or I am in one I try to ride further from land. I always keep a safety margin from land, if I cross it I instantly release. In strong winds say 40kts you can get dragged very fast downwind, even knocked out on the water very easy. Say in onshore conditions you can go from say 100meters from land to on the beach in a few seconds. You have no time to think you need a prethought out plan and just react. The reaction is release, set you margin with multiple factor of what you need to react.

As to the deaths, 3 is just crazy. There is something very wrong with the educations of these kiters. I saw the video with guys on kites far too big for that coming storm, I see some ride in onshore and in shallow water, both dangerous. You can survive a squall on a big kite in those conditions but it is not ideal. Kite low and or release. The great contradiction of kite size safety is small kites will loft you less but kill you easier if they do.. strong winds are just dangerous but also thrilling.

Set a safety margin or condition to release your kite. For example on land if anything weird happens with the kite release it or if you pass within 100ms of land release it. React don't think.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby downunder » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:42 am

Actually,

I am totally opposite. There is almost nothing to learn from many types of fatal accidents. This might be a surprise, but the accident is clearly that, nothing more.

So it might be interesting read, but will I learn anything? Hardly. Because I know two of my injuries, resulting in fracture, were not NOT avoidable. I could also break a neck and die. Or, can ride with boots to prevent slipping from straps and badly crashing ;) Or not jump at all.

On the other side, when the rider jump upwind from obstacles... That is preventable.

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Re: Casualty in Sicily

Postby deniska » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 am

pmaggie wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:05 am
I'm not an expert of bars but my Core bar seems to be totally unaware of load The release mechanism is rotative and does not "depend" on the chicken loop load, they are two completely separate thing. There's no relation between the rotation of the safety mechanism and the CL load, once the safety rotates the CL is released. It's like opening a trap. I'm not saying is a 100% safe system, there are of course other things you have to care (sand, corrosion, etc.) but if the system is in perfect conditions it will for sure work under any load.
Don't be so sure, if you have new version (tektanium safety line, covered in plastic) - it jams pretty easy with sand, especially on big days, when sand is flying.
The problem is that the the metal tube inside the rotator is way too narrow. Wet PU line catches sand and then, even with very little amount it can get jammed, because unlike previous soft rope, the new plastic cover does not give in even if serious force is applied.
How I know? I was caught in a squall trying to flag with kite on a side of the wind window, touching the ground. It took 2-3 seconds and some pushing with my hand to make the rotator move along the plastic line.... pretty scary few seconds as I was sitting on my butt trying to hold my ground and get rid of the kite..
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