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Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

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dr511
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Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby dr511 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:21 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neS9VjCJP0w

It would be interesting to see if any harness producer would want to incorporate this system in their line up.
For now it is just an prototype where we use the material but not a finished product yet.

It goes back to where hardshell harnesses started.... as a custom option to really fit your body.

I know that after testing the whole range of hardshells on the market last year i had a really sore back.
I still like my "soft" harness for the comfort...

What do you think?

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby tomtom » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:08 am

Imo only viable option.
Hardshell must be custom

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:37 am

tomtom wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:08 am
Imo only viable option.
Hardshell must be custom
Totally disagree.

Parallel story:

Many people in my region have benefits through work. Most get coverage for some form of orthotics. The general state of shoes out there and what the average person is wearing is ridiculously sub standard when it comes to support, many rushe out there to get their feet measured by fancy electronic force pad and have themselves a fancy custom made orthotic done up. They run about $600-700. People buy in because its a fancy machine and the word "custom" makes them feel special.

Its a complete rip off. Most of the "custom" orthotics are barely modified off the shelf pieces. Most people don't care because they get the money back from their benefit plan.

The reality is that for the vast majority of feet that don't have something really individual about them, a simple $45 birkenstock insert will bring the level of support of their sub standard shoes up to snuff. Primary arch, secondary arch, torsion control and flex resisting structure in the last of the shoe.... this is not rocket science. If it were, we would all need custom shoes let alone orthotics.

Harnesses are exactly the same. You take 1000 custom formed low back supports and your going to find very little difference between them except for overall size. Some poor dudes and dudettes out there are of course more than one standard deviation outside the norm, but the reality is that you can accommodate the vast major of us with a few size options.

You are an individual, but your not that much of an individual !!

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby tomtom » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:02 pm

So we agree to disagree :)

There are 10ths of shoe sizes and 1000-ths of shoe models for sole reason to FIT. How many shoes will actually fit you in shop?. This is why they can work on non custom base.
So go to shoe shop and choose from 4 sizes in 5 models - "you are an individual, but your not that much of an individual" - good luck :)

Btw I believe that so call shoe "support" is completely wrong concept. Im firm believer in "barefoot" concept, but that is OT

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:58 pm

OT:
Barefoot competence is absolutely on point, but all in approaches are seldom appropriate for the general population. Only a tiny percentage of people can pull it off well enough to make it a lifestyle. Takes awareness, understanding, training and vigilance. Decent support doesn't negate the need for that awareness and understanding, and the best way forward for most of us is an intelligent blend of the two. Barefoot for reasonable periods of appropriate activity with the requisite focus and control. Support for less than focused periods of prolonged walking or standing, especially on industrial surfaces.

Barefoot competence is like stabilizer less foiling. It may be better, but only for those who are in the rarified position to actually pull it off.

Most people need to lose weight and get in shape before a barefoot lifestyle is even an appropriate goal. To promote it to the general population does a disservice and leads to more harm than good.

Back on topic:

There are many options for harnesses, like you would at the shoe store, get one that fits. Hard shell or not, you can get it right without the need to custom mold your low back.

There are many generic shell users out there that are better off than they were with the harnesses of yesteryear. Just like there are many people out there with good generic foot support that are better off than they would be without.

But just like minimalist shoes, hardshell harnesses have limitations. IMHO, properly fit, they best suit the use of a slider. For those sticking with the hook and Cl full time, its more appropriate to have a harness that is either softer or grips less so that it transmits less torque to your core.

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby tomtom » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:44 pm

Completely agree.

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby norcom » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:21 pm

Awesome idea! Not sure how well the resin would spread and saturate through the carbon/glass inside the bag though. And if you pour too much resin, wouldn't the structure become weaker?

Edit:

What I'd really like in a harness, other than the hardhsell and material that doesn't absorb water (have both types) is a design where the harness doesn't take on water internally at all. So the stitching where the rear strap runs would be on the outside of the harness. No pockets of any kind for water to get into.
Last edited by norcom on Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby pmaggie » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:27 pm

Customization can be good, but I agree that if you're not the world champion you'll for sure find an harness that fits perfectly, it's only a matter of patience. Just go in a good shop and take your time to test. Also, there are some other points that must be considered. First of all: 99% of the times, I tried a new harness in the shop wearing a t-shirt. Here on the lake, we have to use a wetsuit quite every session, it's rare to ride only with a boardshort and a lycra. So, just to begin I chose my harness the wrong way. Second: how old is your harness? After 4 or 5 years of use, an harness will for sure be very different from the day it was brand new. If "custom" means around double of the price (see Ride Engine), I prefer to buy a standard harness and change it more often.

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby stefarius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:22 pm

pmaggie wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:27 pm
Customization can be good, but I agree that if you're not the world champion you'll for sure find an harness that fits perfectly, it's only a matter of patience. Just go in a good shop and take your time to test. Also, there are some other points that must be considered. First of all: 99% of the times, I tried a new harness in the shop wearing a t-shirt. Here on the lake, we have to use a wetsuit quite every session, it's rare to ride only with a boardshort and a lycra. So, just to begin I chose my harness the wrong way. Second: how old is your harness? After 4 or 5 years of use, an harness will for sure be very different from the day it was brand new. If "custom" means around double of the price (see Ride Engine), I prefer to buy a standard harness and change it more often.
Maybe changing the inner or outer shell separately? Different stiffness maybe, depending on the conditions of riding style?
One of the biggest problems I witness with harnesses is the sliding up of the harness. It's not only uncomfortable it's also a biomechanics issue. Jumping with a hook under your chin gives a hyperextension in your lower back with all the back problems, especially when the core is not strong enough for the jump force. (80% of the people) But also for the experienced riders who like to go big. Pivoting around your belly bottom is much easier. So the big question for me would be, can this system be a start of a better fit, without sliding!

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Re: Custom Hardshell made in shop.. would it work?

Postby BudhaNl » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:24 am

I actually have been thinking about this and I do feel that it could be feasible. Looking at the skiboot-industry, they have been able to make custom fitting available at shops everywhere. Why wouldn't that be possible with a kite harness? Once the harness is really custom fit, there is much less need for tightening ropes, so perhaps a system similar to skiboots could be implemented to make it much easier to put the harness on correctly.


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