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Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

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Pemba
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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Pemba » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:18 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:00 pm
SolarSet wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:01 am
It's very annoying when for example Cabrinha sales their kites in middle of season with 40% off, as mentioned before you buy kite 20% off you can easily negotiate here in Poland at the beginning of season and then 3 months later same kite is 40%, you lose 20% just because you had kite few months earlier. Fortunately kites don't change much these days so you better off just buying previous year model instead unless you love new colors of kites.
I much rather if they lower their price in the first place and don't sale it later with huge discount but the way marketing work people wouldn't buy something cheaper as they would think cheaper=lower quality, that's the reason for hype with expensive kite brands.
It must suck to only get paid from your job once a year! - Just kidding.

So the explanation of this one is exceedingly simple, but I will stretch it out to over 500 words in an effort to weed out those with short attention spans.

COREporations want to sell their product for the most money possible. But there is an upper limit set by.......not the biggest cheap skate.....not the cheapo's in the middle.....and certainly not the billionaire (not plural for a reason) at the top. The upper limit is set by a combination of what your average kiter can pay for the kite, and which kiters will (or will not) target your brand for purchase. Given cost of production is pretty much the same within specific marketing strategies, pricing is typically similar. The "holy grail" of all COREporations is to have an advertising/social media department that can create a demand via "hype". This means that by changing perception, a COREporation can keep or give its investors a larger profit on the initial/continued investment. This can all be done without a superior product, and often times an inferior product, while still setting a higher price for said product. And higher rate of return can attract more investment, or just plain let the owners buy a Bently instead of a Fiat.

Within each annual sales cycle, the most willing and capable of paying a high price, are the ones who will buy at the initial MSRP price. MSRP actually is an acronym for Manufactures Suggfested Retail Price, but I call it Maximum Supposed Retarded Purchaseprice (I apologize for offending any of the differently abled out there). And actually, I purchased my first kites at that level. Then I learned that I did not receive any customer support from either the most expensive brands, nor the cheaper brands. So then I started to hang back, be patient, and wait for sales or used gear to come up for a much lower price.

But again, those COREporations still want to get the most money out of each customer. So they set a high price at the beginning to snare those who:

1. Like the status of being the first to have a new year/model on the beach and are willing to pay extra for that privilege.
2. Like to flaunt that they have enough money to pay the most for a kite.
3. Still believe that the "new year/model" is better than last year (if that was true we would have kites that turned so fast they would magically disappear, then reappear on the other side of the window)

There is a premium for the above attitude - you are going to pay for it!


However, sensible kiters are typically more patient and wait to purchase a new kite for lots of reasons.

1. There is no reason to dump full retail on something that expensive with that much markup.
2. Their current kites still work fine and they are not looking for "status" that a new or extremely expensive kite gives you - they are just good kiters.
3. They want to wait till the new kites are "proven" to work well, not have any control/feel issues, and not have any defects.

In a free market, we are all able to choose where we want to be. Heck, maybe someday kite companies will come up with internal financing for more expensive kites. Think of it, "This kite is so awesome and expensive, I had to get a loan to buy it!". How cool would you be if you could say that on the beach.......and the chicks.....the chicks! You could get them without even knowing how to kite, just like cars! (sarcasm - for ESL)
I'm one of those with a short attention span but I think what you mean is that COREporations and I expect other kite companies are aiming at maximum profit, maybe maximum turnover, something obvious and transparent. And for this they use all sorts of "tricks" (not trying to be cynical). I expect this to apply to lots of companies. Kiters want the best possible deal, good kite low price. Price would largely be determined by supply and demand. All straightforward market economy, just like so many other things ? This is what I think anyway. Nothing new, nothing to be surprised about.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Toby » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:22 pm

This discussion is always so funny.
How about complaining about e.g. the lawyer that takes 500 USD an hour from you?

Just buy what you prefer and can afford, you won’t change the world complaining. Only by doing...and 100% sure no one the complainers will ever take the risk to start a kite brand with just a mark up of 10%...

Go kite and enjoy!

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Matteo V » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:37 pm

Pemba wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:18 pm
Price would largely be determined by supply and demand.
This is only true (main factor) in commodities with no differentiation between brands - perceived or real. Since it is easy to create differentiation via trend setting and fashion (hype), the kite market does not play strictly by supply and demand, especially within brands or marketing models. The kite market is MADE by the hype marketing/social media departments of COREporations. In addition to that, someone letting out that sales have been slow this year, could temporarily return the market to being supply and demand driven. If that info did not get out, then kite prices could be artificially (gotta love marketing depts) kept high for a longer period than supply and demand would allow.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Matteo V » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Absolute Gold!!!
CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
For a Seppo, you really don't have a grasp of the fundamentals of capitalism do you?
CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
......but as a word of caution.. Don't mention Trump. :lol:
So Trump = evil capitalist
YOU = fundamentalist supporter of capitalism????

Just so you know, that is ok! Graeme F, I do not care if you are on Trumps side yourself. You have much more in common with him than you think. And your main issue with not being able to see that is that you are TOO MUCH like him.

I have said before that capitalism is the best means by which humanity advances. Like it or not, that is what history has proven. Sometimes it even advances us too fast, as it can occasionally back us into a corner. Overall, it seems to beat out any other system yet conceived. But capitalism is also dishonest. With respect to COREporate kiteboarding, the dishonesty is in the advertising "hype" BS. If you DO buy a kite because you have bought into the hype of a particular brand or trend created by the advertising department of a COREporation, you are supporting that flaw in the capitalist system (and the COREporation is exploiting you). If you DON'T buy into the hype created by those aiming to profit from the hype alone, you force the capitalist system and the product to become better. If enough of us do that, sure some advertising and social media employees will lose their jobs, but the end users will get better products that will be judged based on their performance, not fashion and hype.

CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
allows you to travel, kite some other spots, meet some of us infidels who don't believe the word of God.
And Cappy - can we PLEASE drop the references to God! Everything I have heard on that subject makes me pretty sure God would want nothing to do with you or me in this conversation. I would say God would be more on iriejohn side, just "facepalming" with regards to the whole thing. And spewing hate for those who hold religions views, in opposition to yours and mine, is not an effective way to enlighten them. It just makes us look like a-- holes, and creates extreme resistance to them seeing reason or changing their views.

CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Kitesurfing is too small a businees to attract the corporate bean counters, true B&M and maybe the new North assault on us are funded by high finance, but nobody else is....
Another great CappyCoreGraemeF"+many more forum aliases) faceplant!!!

https://www.air-head.com/2013/08/shanno ... urf-brand/
CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Yes they need financial backing, but they are not corporate hacks with investors and shareholders calling the tune. You are so 'off base' is it? The yank expression based on their girlie rounders game, for being wrong?
An investor without expectation of "return on investment" is not an investor. That would be a benefactor - a person who gives money or other help to a person or cause. So you need to clarify, the financial backing for COREporate Kiteboarding is coming from those who do not desire a return on their investment??? Yah????????


Original post -
CaptainCore wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:54 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:07 pm
COREporate execs down to peons admit this. Again, that is why the legend that is Graeme F is so nice to have here. He lets slip confirmation of the reality that is COREporate Kiteboarding.
For a Seppo, you really don't have a grasp of the fundamentals of capitalism do you? You're clearly not as stupid a guy as you come across as. You have as good a command of the Queens English as we can expect from colonials. Some precise delineation of your points gives an illusion of intelligence, but then you make stupid assertions like that.

Kitesurfing is too small a businees to attract the corporate bean counters, true B&M and maybe the new North assault on us are funded by high finance, but nobody else is, there is a man called Naish behind the Naish brand, Pete Cabrinha is still the driving force behind his outfit, Rafael Salles runs F1, Bernie Hiss runs Core, these guys are all kitesurfers. Yes they need financial backing, but they are not corporate hacks with investors and shareholders calling the tune. You are so 'off base' is it? The yank expression based on their girlie rounders game, for being wrong?

It's a shame you've eshewed the pursuit of wealth, a little wealth doesn't hurt, it helps to broaden your outlook, allows you to travel, kite some other spots, meet some of us infidels who don't believe the word of God. Come to realise the land of the free, home of the brave, is in fact policed by racist facists, constrained by a work ethic that many countries would rise up in rebellion against and generally not quite as free a country as many other places in the world are.

Travel is your friend, travel is enlightenment, but as a word of caution.. Don't mention Trump. :lol:

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Pemba » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:16 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:37 pm
Pemba wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:18 pm
Price would largely be determined by supply and demand.
This is only true (main factor) in commodities with no differentiation between brands - perceived or real. Since it is easy to create differentiation via trend setting and fashion (hype), the kite market does not play strictly by supply and demand, especially within brands or marketing models. The kite market is MADE by the hype marketing/social media departments of COREporations. In addition to that, someone letting out that sales have been slow this year, could temporarily return the market to being supply and demand driven. If that info did not get out, then kite prices could be artificially (gotta love marketing depts) kept high for a longer period than supply and demand would allow.
Not sure. I agree that the market is probably driven by hype but that hype is perceived as quality. The brand becomes "cool" or something and a value is put on that. If the brand then becomes uncool demand goes down and the prices need to go down as well. If prices stay high demand stays low and the brand would go bankrupt. Well maybe unless they can sustain these high prices (being COREporations) which I guess is what you're saying.

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby badgb21 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:20 pm

All this name calling, you'll have Peter Frank to answer to, you know! He won't have it!

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Matteo V » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:24 pm

badgb21 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:20 pm
All this name calling, you'll have Peter Frank to answer to, you know! He won't have it!
Peter Frank makes some great points! I would be happy to have him chime in here. I would be even more happy if he presents a dissenting view as that is what I value the most. You too, badby!

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby iriejohn » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:36 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:46 pm
I would say God would be more on iriejohn side, just "facepalming" with regards to the whole thing. And spewing hate for those who hold religions views, in opposition to yours and mine, is not an effective way to enlighten them. It just makes us look like a-- holes, and creates extreme resistance to them seeing reason or changing their views.
Blimey, now you've really lost it! :lol:

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:52 pm

i think it is a fair to have an opinion about rediculous markup high cost kiteboarding equipment.

and also the effects of non kiteboarder shareholder led kiteboarding companies.

imo if the kiteboarding industry wants long term growth it needs to look at the fact that the average age of kiteboarders has increased so much in recent years, with fewer younger riders involved, and that equipment costs are the single biggest factors in that.

history repeats ( ie windsurfing)
over complex, over priced, over diversified

the brand loyalty level within kiteboarding is insane, i dont think that helps

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Re: Core kites and kiteboarding industry sales this year

Postby Matteo V » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:34 am

iriejohn wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:36 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:46 pm
I would say God would be more on iriejohn side, just "facepalming" with regards to the whole thing. And spewing hate for those who hold religions views, in opposition to yours and mine, is not an effective way to enlighten them. It just makes us look like a-- holes, and creates extreme resistance to them seeing reason or changing their views.
Blimey, now you've really lost it! :lol:

Sorry man,

I apologize in all sincerity for linking you with something you may not wish to be associated with. I will do my best to not do it again. You are a "valuable and interesting contributor" and I hope you did not take offense to my mistake. PLEASE accept my apology, while not thinking less of me, as this is the best I can think of to do to make it right. Again, I must state that this is without any sarcasm or misdirection.

Should you have any religious views, I respect them and support you in your choice to view the world as you do.

Plus, I only wrote the original post mentioning you because I really liked the "Picard's facepalm" you found. It is nice.ImageCan anybody find a good "Picard's double facepalm" smile???

Still good to know you are proof reading, or at least reading, my posts (hint of sarcasm implied here by me).


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