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Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

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early bird2
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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby early bird2 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:10 pm

PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:28 am
Which bar setting do you use with your Storm ?, 2 fronts safety or one front ?
I made a 5th line like posted viewtopic.php?p=890612#p890612 and viewtopic.php?p=959976#p959976. But probably no need, using the 2 front safety like an OR bar or old Cab IDS bar should work, test it first tho.
Thanks for the reply .
OR also told me that a single front line safety works fine on the Storm , did you experiment it ? I bought a Storm lately and did not use it yet , so I take notes and try to figure out the pros and cons of every flag out system .
Dual front lines : kite can fly upside down
Single front line : kite can roll before it settle down
Fifth line : well , one more line to mess with . But looks like it does the job .

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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby BWD » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:58 pm

Fifth line : well , one more line to mess with . But looks like it does the job .
it may depend on the kite, but 5th line kites can also fly upside down....

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PugetSoundKiter
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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:49 pm

Early Bird2 – No I did not try a single front line safety with the storm kite. If you try it, please post your findings including the conditions. Did a little more searching and I think this was the post that made me decide to build/test and use a 5th line: viewtopic.php?p=851008#p851008

Da Yoda wrote:
Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:07 pm
North and Ocean Rodeo know what they're talking about. I had a single-line system "spiral" on me once. Not fun! Kites with pulleys seem to make it worse or more prone.
ORSales wrote:We've debated the merits of a 2 line depower vs a single line for years and honestly, there are great arguments for and against both systems. However, we feel we've currently struck the best accord between convenience and safety - here's our logic in very loose terms:

We feel that to be as safe as possible you need to assume the eventual failure of any given piece of equipment. In this case, I'm referring to the swivel. In the single front line system there is the chance that if the swivel fails and the front lines are wrapped up enough times as a result of looping the kite in only one direction the lines could bind and prevent a proper de-power upon eject. We also feel that flagging the kite off of only one line presents an opportunity for danger if the kite is ejected on the opposite side of the window as this will result in the kite needing to fly through the power zone on its way to being depowered. In our 2 line system the kite's bridle is specifically designed to roll the kite over onto its back and fly the kite down, into the water using the force of the wind to hold it on the water where it will be generating less drag (as it is stuck to the water) than a kite flopping around on one line. Of course, the added benefit of this is also that the kiter can then assess the situation and re-set their chicken loop on the water if they wish to re-launch and fly away. A 1 line system is almost always going to end up with a swim home and we as a company do not feel comfortable a) forcing someone to swim home if they eject and b) forcing them to do the mental calculation of if punching out is worth it if it was to result in a long swim. We'd rather they punched out to be safe and then had the chance to decide they are capable of resetting the CL and flying home.

John Z - OR
Dan-at-North wrote:Years ago we tested a safety that dropped to a single front line, but we found that some kites would go into a 'death spiral' when released onto a single front line. I am aware that many other brands now use the single-front-line system without a hitch, so my guess is that there's been some sort of general progression in kite design so that modern kites don't have this issue. Please don't respond to this thread with 'my brand x kites release perfectly on single front line stop bashing single front line'. I understand that there are advantages to a single front line release and I know that it works with many other brands' kites perfectly well. We have simply designed our kites around a dual-front-line release, and it works just as well for our kites as the single front-line system does with other brands' kites.

-Dan
BWD – Agree, the kite on the 5th line safety does roll onto it’s back and depending on your bar (stopper ball) setup you may be able to relaunch with a dual front line, single front line, or 5th line setup. I did use my safety once in 40+mph, but in the washing machine I could not get to the bar to relaunch. Even upside down the kite dragged me to shore on the 5th line fairly quick. With no helper nearby and watching the kite violently bounce around the shoreline I decided not to try walking the 5th line and let it go into the side of a nearby empty house. Bar lines caught on stuff along the way and I had to replace my lines. Kite survived without damage and more importantly so did I.

Not pimpin’ but…I was surprised to see that even tho the storm kite was discontinued that KiteSource Canada’s web site says “Ocean Rodeo Storm kite 5m * This item is special order with a multi month lead time.. please let us know if you are interested in receiving one of our next limited order.”, or maybe I should get two in case I need to go to my safety again :-D

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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby edt » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:41 pm

oh boy, good luck walking up the 5th line when it's actually 50 knots because you can't get a grip on the line, even flagged out it pulls too hard. I definitely understand that feeling.

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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby early bird2 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:29 am

PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:49 pm
Early Bird2 – No I did not try a single front line safety with the storm kite. If you try it, please post your findings including the conditions. Did a little more searching and I think this was the post that made me decide to build/test and use a 5th line: viewtopic.php?p=851008#p851008

Da Yoda wrote:
Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:07 pm
North and Ocean Rodeo know what they're talking about. I had a single-line system "spiral" on me once. Not fun! Kites with pulleys seem to make it worse or more prone.
ORSales wrote:We've debated the merits of a 2 line depower vs a single line for years and honestly, there are great arguments for and against both systems. However, we feel we've currently struck the best accord between convenience and safety - here's our logic in very loose terms:

We feel that to be as safe as possible you need to assume the eventual failure of any given piece of equipment. In this case, I'm referring to the swivel. In the single front line system there is the chance that if the swivel fails and the front lines are wrapped up enough times as a result of looping the kite in only one direction the lines could bind and prevent a proper de-power upon eject. We also feel that flagging the kite off of only one line presents an opportunity for danger if the kite is ejected on the opposite side of the window as this will result in the kite needing to fly through the power zone on its way to being depowered. In our 2 line system the kite's bridle is specifically designed to roll the kite over onto its back and fly the kite down, into the water using the force of the wind to hold it on the water where it will be generating less drag (as it is stuck to the water) than a kite flopping around on one line. Of course, the added benefit of this is also that the kiter can then assess the situation and re-set their chicken loop on the water if they wish to re-launch and fly away. A 1 line system is almost always going to end up with a swim home and we as a company do not feel comfortable a) forcing someone to swim home if they eject and b) forcing them to do the mental calculation of if punching out is worth it if it was to result in a long swim. We'd rather they punched out to be safe and then had the chance to decide they are capable of resetting the CL and flying home.

John Z - OR
Dan-at-North wrote:Years ago we tested a safety that dropped to a single front line, but we found that some kites would go into a 'death spiral' when released onto a single front line. I am aware that many other brands now use the single-front-line system without a hitch, so my guess is that there's been some sort of general progression in kite design so that modern kites don't have this issue. Please don't respond to this thread with 'my brand x kites release perfectly on single front line stop bashing single front line'. I understand that there are advantages to a single front line release and I know that it works with many other brands' kites perfectly well. We have simply designed our kites around a dual-front-line release, and it works just as well for our kites as the single front-line system does with other brands' kites.

-Dan
BWD – Agree, the kite on the 5th line safety does roll onto it’s back and depending on your bar (stopper ball) setup you may be able to relaunch with a dual front line, single front line, or 5th line setup. I did use my safety once in 40+mph, but in the washing machine I could not get to the bar to relaunch. Even upside down the kite dragged me to shore on the 5th line fairly quick. With no helper nearby and watching the kite violently bounce around the shoreline I decided not to try walking the 5th line and let it go into the side of a nearby empty house. Bar lines caught on stuff along the way and I had to replace my lines. Kite survived without damage and more importantly so did I.

Not pimpin’ but…I was surprised to see that even tho the storm kite was discontinued that KiteSource Canada’s web site says “Ocean Rodeo Storm kite 5m * This item is special order with a multi month lead time.. please let us know if you are interested in receiving one of our next limited order.”, or maybe I should get two in case I need to go to my safety again :-D
PugetSoundKiter , I'm gonna go single front line and be back with the results .

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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby tilmann » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:00 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:02 am
I'm not sure about a smaller kite - I think there's a point at which the power becomes too on-&-off with a really small kite, but the last time I used a a really small kite, it was a 3.5 C kite back in the day ... it wasn't much fun, but maybe a modern kite would work better.
no on&off anymore with longer lines
4m Rally with 27m lines is pure fun.
I really love this kite :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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Re: Which Kites and lines lenght are most people using for 30 to 50 knots

Postby pj sofine » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:55 pm

Used my 7 mtr rpm with 20 mtr lines sat in 30 to 40knot winds. Worked okay, not a big fan of high winds but have to go out regardless! Maybe if it was in a protected area, darn onshore waves were just a wind driven mess, close together, multiple wacky parts to the waves , lots of white water etc. Tough to just get off beach!


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