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Ram airs crash in 2018

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Pump me up
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Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Pump me up » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:52 am

Well, the end of 2018 is nigh. Time for a wrap-up and analysis of the failures of ram air kites this year.

Despite a multitude of ridiculous over-the-top CLAIMS from ram lovers, ram airs cRaSHeD.

On top of that, one of the world’s most respected kite designers and erstwhile designer for FLYSURFER, Ralf Groesel, had this to say about ram airs, confirming EVERY point I’ve ever made about these inferior kites:
“… it’s the Tube-kite that stands victorious. From a designer’s point-of-view it shines in every aspect; its simplicity in design is the key to controlling its complexity. Tube-kites rule most of the sport-related requirements… Soft-kites have an approximate market share of 4%, meaning that 96% of all kites sold worldwide are Tube-kites. This figure basically validates the success of the concept. Without being too sarcastic, you have to be a believer to think that Soft-kites are the future of the kite market…”
For the full epiphany and admission, please check-out this link: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2400039

It's interesting to note that NO ram airs..... no NOT ONE (!)…. feature anywhere near the top of world rankings in ANY discipline Ram airs crashed in Freestyle, Wave, and Speed disciplines.

The same ol’ problems keep recurring: the low-end of large rams is 7-8 knots at best. Ram airs are INFERIOR on downwind legs (collapsing, bow tying, etc). Ram airs really suck in gusty conditions and downwind of obstacles. They are positively lethal in cross-offshore conditions. Relaunch is a NIGHTMARE. Ram airs suffer rapid obsolescence through stretching, bridle deformation, and by being superseded by newer models. Last but not least, SAFETY is a real issue.

Ignore the LIES and exaggerations. Ram airs are grossly inferior compared to inflatables.


Pumpy :pump:

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby pj sofine » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:34 am

A breath of fresh air! To have such pure and truthful facts presented in this climate of hype is highly commendable! :allbegood:

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Matteo V » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:47 am

Just wait! Pumpy will get someone to bite. I did before. Now.....well, I would like to think I know better. But I am a slow learner.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby fernmanus » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:41 am

I am disappointed in you Pumpy! Where is the long copy & paste?

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:39 am

the cost... almost twice the price in many cases for same sized kite. a lot more labour i guess

you wont get much change from $9000 (us) for an 18 13 and 9

Ram air kites promote elitism, classism, snobbery, the sports fragmentation/ dillution, unaffordability, reduced youth involvment,reduced number of under 40s, planned obselescence ( bridle stretch / tuning), an unbalanced focus on equipments performance.. not the riders performance, unwanted profit only short term focused corporate investment in kiting, unwanted olympic involvment, unwanted squabbling over rights to whether kiteboarding can retain its self determination as sailing attempts to rewrite history and attempt to steal a sport from under our nose$. and combined with $4000 foil boards...absolutely rediculous and unnecessary.

yep.. and then there is the rest of that stuff..

Take your flying sleeping bags and...

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby james » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:22 am

Rob Douglas speed world champion 2018 flysurfer soul

Maxime nocher hydrofoil champ, flysurfer vmg

Clearly it’s jus an attempt to get people biting, but as for longwhite clouds stream of garbage it’s got me thinking he might be PMU?

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby kiterocky » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:14 am

I search rob douglas and he is a cabrinha rider.. ... e-champion
But for race comp foil its better..only for the guys in competition..

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby Jzh_perth » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:29 am

Olympics have selected Ram Airs for Paris 2024 !!! ... 898371970/

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:58 am

wouldnt be a surprise.. you know the current olympic ideology they put out...

affordable for 3rd world nations and youth involvement, so why not choose the absolute most expensive kite equipment on earth?

what is the other one 50/50 male female participation... fail.. oh and we will make it a mixed event where many countries will not even have a femsle kite racer .. wtf

appealing to the action sports ( ioc describe kite foil racing as an urban sport.. sooo clueless) sector of youth.. hmm lets choose the most niche of all niches that bares no relation to action sports whatsoever

what a press release underneath that they say equipnent still to be decided in 2019.. .. they got no idea lol!

believe nothing until it happens.. history repeats

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2018

Postby sabraxas » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:14 pm

Ralf Groesel WAS designer of Flysurfer more than 15 years ago. Those ram air can't be compared to actual foils.
Beyond that, Groesel is the designer of North Duotone Vegas, one of the most selling kites worldwide for freestyle. The conclusion of Groesel is more marketing than scientific facts.

I have tested the new Flysurfer Soul. Superb Kite, one line relaunching. It excells one and every lei and sle in freeriding style in every aspect. The price is the same of an inflatable kite.

The note written by Groesel is correct, but has its flats. One of them is the express intentionality to say that the singleskin profile of an inflatable kite generates more lift and less drag than (higher L/D ratio) than a double skin soft kite. But this is measured at angle of attack of 20 degrees!
In general, the wing profiles of the double-skin kites amply win the inflatable kites in Lift / drag ratio, at lower attack angles, even tending to zero.

Inflatable kites are a wonder of simplicity and complexity at the same time. But Sunday's soccer match results are being analyzed reading the newspaper on Monday. Aerodynamically speaking, if the kites did not have to float and relaunch from the water, I believe that never any designer with some knowledge of aerodynamics would have evolved the kites to the side where they have evolved the last 18 years: the inflatable kites.
Nobody would have put tubes with air pressure or curved them so much. To that wonderful aerodynamic freak, after years of cut & try tests, designers finally achieved what inflatables are today. Stable kites, with a wide range of wind, manageable, safe, repeatable and with huge absorption of gusts.

Summing up this idea, the inflatable kites first, above all, FLOAT in water and then fly. For some years now they have been flying very well, but it took time for the development of the current performance. In turn, I would say that the soft kites first FLY and then float. Beyond the aquatic universe, inflatable technology is not used, or only in very few cases. Not in power kiting, Kitebuggying, landboarding. As far as I know, no one practices paragliding seriously with an inflatable kite (and i think this is not only a fact caused by internal air pressure of tubes at different heights).

Groesel talks about the simplicity in the construction of inflatables. And this is a very strong point in the kite industry. An inflatable kite can be developed entirely with moderately trained operators with the half of the amount and lower quality materials than a soft kite. A soft kite is not sewn by anyone but an expert. There is already experience in generic foils of Chinese origin, which lacks of the performance of the best made in Europe soft kites developed .

On the other hand, Groessel argues that 96% of the market buy inflatables and only 4% buy soft kites.
We could also say that 99.9% of the market buys cars with an internal combustion engine, and only 0.1% electric. However, the energetic performance of an internal combustion engine is very much lower than an electric motor. People buy what brands sell, depending on what they can afford. Marketing is a fundamental part of that equation.

In 2004, Don Montague, Naish's kite designer, projected future double-skinned inflatable kites, with increased pressure on the leading edges. But back then he said that technology did not exist in the necessary materials. And if it existed, it was unfeasible because of the costs.

I would like you not to misunderstand me, I am not a fanatic of any type of kite, I think the inflatables and foils are marvelous. Each one with their pro and cons, each in their niche and, why not, tackling a little the other.

Finally, I close with some ideas of an experienced kiter with extensive knowledge in aerodynamics about the inflatable kites : "... A lei or sle kite is a grotesque thing, it is not a wing.
It is a crap full of colours where the most important things are the colours and the graphics ... and to push with a certain glamour.

A tube pipe inflated with cloth flapping back, distorted by design and marketing issues that requires floating (in the water !!!) and twisting to turn.
Plane at the tips and with reinforcements (where it should be lighter) and things that stand out like valves, hoses, battens, blah, blah.

The kite does not fly. Just eject it to realize ... it seems, but no.
It looks like a wing, but it is not. It requires infinity of subtleties of design that postpones very far back things that for a "wing" would be primary.

A kite is something where what matters is always something else. "

... GREAT!
Last edited by sabraxas on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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