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Ram airs crash in 2019

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foilholio
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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby foilholio » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Nice name. The pivot and Chrono V1? are very different kites. There are not many foil kites around that are aimed exactly at the PIvot area but I think if your friend had tried one of them he would have had a better experience. Foil kites are definitely not for everyone, the problems can be summed up that they are generally more difficult to use. They do have advantages but the question is whether those outweigh the difficulties. I think for the more casual kiter they can. I look at just the time I save setting up and that alone is a huge factor in sticking with foil kites. Then there is durability,longevity and landing. If you like some of the flying aspects too maybe those alone can outweigh any negatives but against everything else they just have too many positives.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby flysurfing » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:37 am

foilholio wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:55 pm
Nice name. The pivot and Chrono V1? are very different kites. There are not many foil kites around that are aimed exactly at the PIvot area but I think if your friend had tried one of them he would have had a better experience. Foil kites are definitely not for everyone, the problems can be summed up that they are generally more difficult to use. They do have advantages but the question is whether those outweigh the difficulties. I think for the more casual kiter they can. I look at just the time I save setting up and that alone is a huge factor in sticking with foil kites. Then there is durability,longevity and landing. If you like some of the flying aspects too maybe those alone can outweigh any negatives but against everything else they just have too many positives.
My friend has more than 20 years of experience kiting and he been foiling since the early days. The main issue for him was when the ram crash... He is now perfectly happy with the Pivot for daily foiling activities and doesn't see the point for him of using a Ram.

I didn't experienced this personally but find it such trouble to switch from foil to twin tip when the wind was going up. Always had to pack the Flysurfer took quite a long time then inflate the pivot after for TT riding.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby foilholio » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:22 pm

Sounds like a case of you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby POACHER » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:46 pm

Sounds more like foil kites are less necessary for lightwind now with foil boards.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:57 pm

Single strut will see a boom over the next few season.

There are so many good three strut kites out now. User friendly with great flying characteristics. By far the mass of the market. The main factor moving forward for the growing number of foilers will be weight. The pivot is a great kite, but its not light enough for foiling in light wind. THAT is really the big draw to foil kites with the added bonus of no pump. To be out there while the three strut kites sit on the beach. The raw power of performance foils is unmatched, but the buying public is strange and there is more than one solution to weight. Top ram air kites are inherently more complex and expensive compared to the uber simplicity of other solutions like Strutless kites. The most vocal proponents of ram air kites are also the same people who can go into detail about filling pin holes in their carbon foil's finish. Not the masses who are looking for simple gear, not formula one.

Strutless work so well and have been refined by a few companies now, but people are sheeple and sheep are easily frightened. Single strut will be the compromise that sells. They work great and max the user friendliness. They have a little nicer top end than strutless, which is also good for the masses who are generally happiest a little overpowered.

Of course racing will forever be dominated by closed cell ram air, and we will continue to see the development of single skin and hybrid single/closed cell, that will become ever more user friendly, and easily relaunchable, but by the time they truly mature, the single strut will already be king.
Last edited by jumptheshark on Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby mar menor » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:26 pm

Will be interesting to see how the Ocean Rodeo Roam Black (Aluula) impacts on not just foils but also single struts?

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby TomW » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:37 pm

Well if only OR makes them, the limited geographical distribution will be a problem.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:52 pm

Single strut has the jump on Allula. Most companies have one or can jump on the wagon without expense. Allula might be great stuff, but it will take a while to permeate the market and will come at a premium.

OR will be a bit stubborn regarding single strut and will go with Allula three strut as their answer, but if the fabric gets licenced out someone will make a single strut with it and OR will eventually follow suit.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby drsurf » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:38 pm

flysurfing wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:57 pm
Had a 15 and 18m Sonic Flysurfer before.

Sold them both.

Now on Pivot 8/9/10/12 and honestly don't see the point of having Ram anymore.

One of my good buddies who foils on a daily basis had a Chrono and had a huge issue the kite falling and tangling. He sold it a few days after and went on the Pivot only for foiling.
Comparing 15m & 18m foil kites with 8m to 12m LEI kites is a bizarre comparison. The wind ranges between these two types of kites at these respective sizes can't be compared. A 9m or 10m Flysurfer Soul foil kite would be a more accurate comparison as a foil kite with a 12m Pivot.

If you are interested in hydrofoiling, where the big gains in time on the water in light winds are to be made, then foil kites shine. Both for staying in the air and relaunching in conditions where even single strut LEI kites struggle. If you're using a larger surf hydrofoil then a foil kite which is half the cost of an LEI kite can be used such as the Flysurfer Peak4. These are simple single skinned foils and have a lot of power for their size, stay in the air down to 4 knots and drift & depower better than any other kite while still being controllable. The bridles are also simple and don't tend to tangle.

I've also used the Peak4 5m with a TT and it feels closer to an LEI kite than any other foil. If you drop it, it may not relaunch but you have to deliberately dive it into the water or have less than 4 knots of wind for it to fall.

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Re: Ram airs crash in 2019

Postby Matteo V » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:38 pm

flysurfing wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:57 pm
Had a 15 and 18m Sonic Flysurfer before.

Sold them both.

Now on Pivot 8/9/10/12 and honestly don't see the point of having Ram anymore.

One of my good buddies who foils on a daily basis had a Chrono and had a huge issue the kite falling and tangling. He sold it a few days after and went on the Pivot only for foiling.
Some kiters don't understand that "race kites" ARE "race kites". Don't buy them if you are not going to race on them.

Ozone deserves credit for taking the Chrono I and making it into a much more stable Chrono 2. For a skilled kiter, the Chrono 2 is usable for everything and is the most capable kite I have ever flown. Flysurfer does not offer anything close to it in performance. But yes, the Chrono 1 and R1 (specifically race kites) are of no use to have fun on, unless you think winning a race is fun. And personally, for my style on the snow, I cannot even make a Chrono 1 or R1 handle the terrain and winds I like to ride in. But again, the Chrono 2 is the best kite I have ever flown at my current skill level and it lets me hit any terrain, or handle any wind. I wish I owned one. But if you tried to give me a Chrono 1/R1 or R2, I would refuse or just sell it immediately.

Stay away from race kites.


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