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Ramairholio wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Just the time I save setting up and that alone is a huge factor in sticking with foil kites.
Then there is landing.
Against everything else they just have too many positives.

Some kiters don't understand that "race kites" ARE "race kites". Don't buy them if you are not going to race on them.

Ozone deserves credit for taking the Chrono I and making it into a much more stable Chrono 2. For a skilled kiter, the Chrono 2 is usable for everything and is the most capable kite I have ever flown. Flysurfer does not offer anything close to it in performance. But yes, the Chrono 1 and R1 (specifically race kites) are of no use to have fun on, unless you think winning a race is fun. And personally, for my style on the snow, I cannot even make a Chrono 1 or R1 handle the terrain and winds I like to ride in. But again, the Chrono 2 is the best kite I have ever flown at my current skill level and it lets me hit any terrain, or handle any wind. I wish I owned one. But if you tried to give me a Chrono 1/R1 or R2, I would refuse or just sell it immediately.

Stay away from race kites.

Matt, one word: Chasta!!!
Race kites are also good boosters and gliders.

Matt you don't foil, so why would you comment? Have an open mind young man!!! I must say though that you personally are probably right to avoid tricky handling race kites from what I've seen recently. Ahem.

Sorry for the inside joke Folks. Matt just got busted.

Race kites (AKA foil kites) along with fast racing foils are crazy fun. It allows you to kite absolutely anywhere, and to cover huge distances. You can get mad speed in the lightest wind, how is that not fun and good in every way? Matt, when you see Pat Nedele and Kenny gliding way up above you on the ridgelift flying big inflatable Speeds and Sonics, while we sit stuck down in the snow, are you not amazed? I sure am. So much so that I am bringing race (foil) kites up to the snow this year (been snowkiting with my inflateable wave kites the last 10 years, and my boosts and glide attempts have suffered.) So, we shall soon see my friend! I will experiment on this topic and then we can comment once we are thusly edjamuckated.... I'm gonna get my glide on this winter or die trying. Knock on wood. Matt you can laugh at me when I'm trying to get them un-bow-tied.

Because the King is back and it looks like he's flying around on Flysurfer Sonics. Lets get the last word on Ram Air Kites from Chasta. All Hail the King! He's the reason I started kiting in the first place.

Guillaume Chastagnol is at Col du Lautaret. Flying a Sonic.

I’ve been flying Ozone Chrono’s (V1’s) since 2014. They are superb kites in my opinion.
Clearly not for everyone and perhaps have a “niche” following.
I don’t use them as “Race Kites” as such but tap into the performance for general use.
Pic = Ozone Chrono V1 (18m) sitting comfortably at the edge of the wind window, whilst enjoying the magnificent waist deep blue lagoons I had all to myself.
Best wishes to all whatever kite you fly.

drsurf wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:38 pm

flysurfing wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:57 pm

Had a 15 and 18m Sonic Flysurfer before.

Sold them both.

Now on Pivot 8/9/10/12 and honestly don't see the point of having Ram anymore.

One of my good buddies who foils on a daily basis had a Chrono and had a huge issue the kite falling and tangling. He sold it a few days after and went on the Pivot only for foiling.

Comparing 15m & 18m foil kites with 8m to 12m LEI kites is a bizarre comparison. The wind ranges between these two types of kites at these respective sizes can't be compared. A 9m or 10m Flysurfer Soul foil kite would be a more accurate comparison as a foil kite with a 12m Pivot.

If you are interested in hydrofoiling, where the big gains in time on the water in light winds are to be made, then foil kites shine. Both for staying in the air and relaunching in conditions where even single strut LEI kites struggle. If you're using a larger surf hydrofoil then a foil kite which is half the cost of an LEI kite can be used such as the Flysurfer Peak4. These are simple single skinned foils and have a lot of power for their size, stay in the air down to 4 knots and drift & depower better than any other kite while still being controllable. The bridles are also simple and don't tend to tangle.

I've also used the Peak4 5m with a TT and it feels closer to an LEI kite than any other foil. If you drop it, it may not relaunch but you have to deliberately dive it into the water or have less than 4 knots of wind for it to fall.

The comparison should be more on the level when you kite in cold water with a foil kite in light wind and when it falls and doesn't relaunch. You're just doomed. It's what happened to my friend with a very light wind on his Chrono 2. The kite was totally invisible from the surface and he couldn't be spotted out by anyone from the shore. The same stuff happened to him a couple of months ago with a Pivot a 20 min later a rescue boat came form people who spotted him from the shore. Really too many drawbacks to justify using a foil.

When I started kiting in 1997 we were using Flexifoil Blade and when the inflatable kite we looked down on them... Following the AR5 from Naish, I started to discover the benefits of inflatable over foil (pop - slack - jumps - water relaunch) and never went back.

Then I gave a chance to the Sonic and was fairly disappointed. The kites were heavy and didn't feel nice... I sold it and now happy on the Pivot. I can get as early as 9 kts on foil and a 10m and it's a very satisfying ride.

flysurfing wrote: When I started kiting in 1997 we were using Flexifoil Blade

Not like foils have advanced since then have they?

flysurfing wrote: Then I gave a chance to the Sonic and was fairly disappointed. The kites were heavy and didn't feel nice... I sold it and now happy on the Pivot.

That is like completely not how I would describe the Sonics. But again a kite like the Sonic is completely different to a kite like the Pivot.

foilholio wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:10 pm

flysurfing wrote: When I started kiting in 1997 we were using Flexifoil Blade

Not like foils have advanced since then have they?

flysurfing wrote: Then I gave a chance to the Sonic and was fairly disappointed. The kites were heavy and didn't feel nice... I sold it and now happy on the Pivot.

That is like completely not how I would describe the Sonics. But again a kite like the Sonic is completely different to a kite like the Pivot.

Have you tried a blade or other buggy kite It actually works better than most of foil kites on the market nowadays

I wish foil kites could use a simple bridle like LEIs, but they would need a way to support or control the leading edge maybe battens of carbon fiber or some other structure. I think there was talk about hybrids so maybe something will emerge that works.

I have LEI’s, open and closed cell foils that are depowerable and fixed bridle with no depower. I prefer the LEIs on water and foils on land and snow. I love the roll out and go on snow of my open cell foils on snow, and the ability to pull the center lines to to get the kite to start to fly in light wind. But bridle tangles can be difficult and time consuming to sort out, but don’t happen very often. lEIs are so simple to use on beach and water, never a bridle problem, line tangles once in awhile but easy to sort out, and the light wind LEIs work great and are available now in big enough sizes if needed (LOL I still have a 17 meter I have never used in 4 years).

My fixed bridle foils have the most power for their size, a 1 meter kite can pull me on a landboard and a 3 meter yanked me off my feet in strong wind.

I like all types of kites depending on where they are going to be used.

PullStrings wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:05 pm

Ramairholio wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Just the time I save setting up and that alone is a huge factor in sticking with foil kites.
Then there is landing.
Against everything else they just have too many positives.

So is your meme, pulley!

Open cell ram airs set up and launch AND land much easier than any tubie in medium to light winds. In high winds, they do have issues

Closed cell ram airs set up and launch, but don't land any better than tubies.

And from a snowkite perspective, ram airs are just much better in everything except high winds. But there are some ram airs that are still almost as good as most inflatables in high winds.

Matteo V wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:36 pm

PullStrings wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:05 pm

Ramairholio wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Just the time I save setting up and that alone is a huge factor in sticking with foil kites.
Then there is landing.
Against everything else they just have too many positives.

So is your meme, pulley!

Open cell ram airs set up and launch AND land much easier than any tubie in medium to light winds. In high winds, they do have issues

Closed cell ram airs set up and launch, but don't land any better than tubies.

And from a snowkite perspective, ram airs are just much better in everything except high winds. But there are some ram airs that are still almost as good as most inflatables in high winds.

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