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Making launch safer - learning from the experts

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oldcolonial
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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby oldcolonial » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:40 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:59 am
br44 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:13 am
the One & Only method that is 100% safe, 100% guaranteed: GIVE UP.
Strong, turbulent winds? Obstacles, people nearby? Limited experience? Not fully confident in your technique? DON'T LAUNCH. Live to fly another day.
:thumb:

I gave up once....30 -35 knots with gusts to 50 with sideways rain....had 5 sqm ready on short 15 m lines...glad i aborted...that was 10 years ago
I've flown about 1800 more days since then

Also once.... i was asked for help to launch someone 150 lbs who only had a 14 sqm with him....did not bring any small kites...been kiting 2 years in flat water...first time ocean
Side-on wind with pounding ocean shorebreak....4-6ft waves...houses downwind 75 meters away
Said to the guy i am sorry but it would not be safe for you to go with that size kite plus the conditions are extremely challenging
Look at all the kites out there and their sizes...you can see 7's...8's....and on 9 & 10 are the big guys......i will self-launch my 8 which is what i'm used to in 27 to 31 knots
He sat this one out
And lived

Image
Can't agree more. Sometimes the only safe launch is the next one at another place and time.

That said, I had one launch go badly on an otherwise benign day ( winter day, uncrowded wide open, sandy beach, no hard objects near by, side on steady 20-23 kt wind, 8 meter kite, I am 180#) I was in the process of clipping in, not yet in position, with the kite a bit down wind of me relative where I needed to be and the person "helping" me launch threw the kite in the air. Net result, hot launch took me 15 - 20 meter's down wind, slammed onto the sand, quick released chicken loop and spent an hour or so retrieving my kite from the dunes and untangling lines. This would have had serious consequences had the setting been different.

Lesson learned - do not assume that the Kiter you don't know knows what he is doing. From now on I (1) wait for someone I can trust or (2) set an anchor and self launch and land. As a rule, I also generally set an anchor in case I want to come in and there is no one around. Setting a kite down without an anchor or release to the flag out line tends to only work in light winds.

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby alexglebov » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:50 pm

Here is the latest video about unhooked launch from Philippe - he is one of my favorite YouTube instructors!
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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby tomtom » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:14 pm

Why you are talking about unhooked launch - it is not. Its unhooked preparation to launch - which is ok. Unhooked launch are completely stupid idea. It is like to be in car window prepared to jump off the car in case something go wrong. But something indeed goes wrong because you are not behind the wheel...

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby jakemoore » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:14 pm
Why you are talking about unhooked launch - it is not. Its unhooked preparation to launch - which is ok. Unhooked launch are completely stupid idea. It is like to be in car window prepared to jump off the car in case something go wrong. But something indeed goes wrong because you are not behind the wheel...
The point is the launch helper lets go of the kite without the CL hooked. The kite is parked like a tethered launch. Amazing how many helpers won't let go when you give the thumbs up holding the CL like a tethered launch but not hooked in.

One hand on the bar and one on the eject could possibly work in an error if you are fact. Launch unhooked works 100% as long as the bar safety is set correctly.

Its not the old "C kite launch unhooked" with the hands on the bar flying the kite that would backstall a bridled kite.

I'ts the new Bow/SLE/Delta launch unhooked with a hand on the CL and the kite parked on the window edge. The launcher leaves the picture and is done launching the kite before the rider hooks in. The kite is flying at the window edge, with one wingtip on the ground. No bar input needed.

If the launcher drops your kite with a tangled bridle, kite too far forward or whatever the kite force just pulls the chicken loop out of your hand faster than you can get yanked by the kite.

I saw one with an old best Waroo where the rider was hooked in. The launcher was walking to position and the rider was looking away. A rear line snagged a rock, powering the kite on one side, sending it into a loop. It resulted in a very hard slam into the ground for the experienced rider. Luckily nothing but bruises and hurt feelings. Had the chicken loop been unhooked, the loop would have just been yanked out of her hand rather than slamming her body.

Phillipe's video makes this new launching unhooked perfectly clear.
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deniska
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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby deniska » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:43 pm

tomtom wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:14 pm
Why you are talking about unhooked launch - it is not. Its unhooked preparation to launch - which is ok. Unhooked launch are completely stupid idea. It is like to be in car window prepared to jump off the car in case something go wrong. But something indeed goes wrong because you are not behind the wheel...
absolutely agree.. You can do this and other stupid stuff in mild winds no problem. Now when its strong and gusty you need to wrestle with the chicken loop to get it hooked... maybe you are in the gloves.. maybe the kite needs input to correct for a gust/lull.. now you have to insert DD.. meanwhile the kite is flying w/o much attention from you...
Why not just hook and have one hand on quick release before everything check out?

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby tomtom » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:53 pm

Ok its semantic. In my pov its not unhook launch but its quite safe launch. :)
Anyway it will work in big clear launch areas with stable wind. There is some areas where it lead to trouble but these areas are not safe in general. Im mean constrained space - windsurfing stuff on ground which catch lines if kite moves /and it will move because shifty wind/...

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby tomtom » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Anyway - with 20 years trouble free launching :) to be constructive my method with LEIs /which i dont use much anymore/

Normal launch with assistent - but while tensioning the lines and checking if everything is ok im holding QR in hand not hooked - For different reasons i dont use kite leash but its one less thing to worry about connecting. While holding qr in one hand and bar in other /kite still in assistant hands/ i sheet kite in out to check its rigged ok. Just a little to not put too much strain to assi. But it is ennough to see problems briddle twist etc. Then hook in kite up - donkie dick in. Landing in same way - donkie out kite down secured - unhook and holding qr in hand. Always is better to start little more from powerzone than less. Especialy with shifting wind.

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby Hugh2 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:59 pm

Oldcolonial, I don't agree with the second part of your final comment "Setting a kite down without an anchor or release to the flag out line tends to only work in light winds." I routinely end up on deserted beaches at the end of a long downwinder, deserted because by then it is blowing so hard noone in their right mind would be on the beach, and it is not a beach people typically kite from. And I always just dump the kite to my single line flagout without any problems. I do it from having the kite at 12 O'clock so I know roughly where it will land without an tumbles, then just work my way up the single tensioned line to secure the kite. It works especially well for small kites, but I've done it with a 12m when I found myself overpowered.

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby apollo4000 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:09 am

Interesting debate. On the plus side it made me reflect on my current practice and there are some goods tips buried in the comments.

Location (safe space), conditions are clearly a factor, they always are, especially if 50mph with +/- 20mph gusty. Honest assessment of skills, common sense and good judgement are essential.

I agree with the pedantic (I am one) it’s unhooked prep for a hooked launch. Nothing wrong with good prep, and I also wait to hook in. But then I also fuss and fuss over my line checks. First one on the beach, last on the water because of it.

I might be wrong but I think I saw it referred to as an unhooked launch. It shouldn’t be. I accidentally launched 17m unhooked (on a 17m sunny day), nah...not trying that again...don’t think anyone should think that’s the idea. It’s safe sensible unhooked prep before a careful hooked launch.

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Re: Making launch safer - learning from the experts

Postby alexglebov » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:20 am

apollo4000 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:09 am
Interesting debate. On the plus side it made me reflect on my current practice and there are some goods tips buried in the comments.

Location (safe space), conditions are clearly a factor, they always are, especially if 50mph with +/- 20mph gusty. Honest assessment of skills, common sense and good judgement are essential.

I agree with the pedantic (I am one) it’s unhooked prep for a hooked launch. Nothing wrong with good prep, and I also wait to hook in. But then I also fuss and fuss over my line checks. First one on the beach, last on the water because of it.

I might be wrong but I think I saw it referred to as an unhooked launch. It shouldn’t be. I accidentally launched 17m unhooked (on a 17m sunny day), nah...not trying that again...don’t think anyone should think that’s the idea. It’s safe sensible unhooked prep before a careful hooked launch.
Did you hold the bar while launched unhooked? I only suggested to hold a chicken loop and never touch the bar until you are hooked in. You still be flying the kite by holding the children loop only, the kite on the tip, but it is flying.


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