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North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

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Foil
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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby Foil » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:39 pm

evan wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:00 pm
omg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:33 am
Thanks Evan! I have been actually checking out your line offerings and you seem to be knowledgeable about the lines overall. May I ask are your SK99 lines Liros DCxxx lines and if you offer SK99 DC301 1,5mm lines and if not, what is the reason for it, please?
Lines were from Eurocord that went bankrupt, someone took over the machines and coating recipes so I am still able to order the same lines.
They look very much like the Liros DC pro lines ( 401 and 201) in terms of thickness, breaking load and weave but with a thicker, longer lasting coating.

For freeriding/boosting the 1.6mm power lines are thin enough and goes nicely with the thin 1.1mm steering lines so I don't see the advantage to have a line in between.
For light wind and racing the 1.1mm 300DaN are more than strong enough. I even boost on the 1.1mm lines up to 17m and never broke one.

In fact, I will be surprised if most power lines of the big brands exceed a 300DaN breaking load the way they are spliced and sleeved.
I never knew anything about your line /bar operation until this thread turned up.
I wish I did,
after having a look over your web site there are many good items that make sense for me to consider.
the trimless lightweight minimalist bar /line system for freeride board foiling is a great idea, as small kite users, like me, never seem to use the depower, once its set, it is set for the session.well it is for me! I never adjust the trim during a session and all my kites are adjusted to the same level of trim, sort of half way trim just works so well.

I noticed that you do a full set of lines for the click bar, including all the lines through the bar and up through the floats and down to the quick release, the complete replacement of all lines,
do you offer a full replacement service of - send a old click bar in to you and receive a fully re-lined bar back? or is it a matter of send off for the line set, and then watch the click bar video of how to do it.
cheers.

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby iriejohn » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:24 pm

grigorib wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:34 am
Foil wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:27 am
Kees wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:49 pm
They list as 22 meter + 2 meter extensions I believe :thumb:
It's not that simple, front lines are many meters shorter,
....
That sucks! Life is too short for proprietary solutions. Good reason to not buy
This.

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby purdyd » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:47 pm

good discussion here

As a point of reference i have two 2018 click bars I bought one in the fall of 2017 and one in the winter of 2018. I use the earlier bar almost exclusively during for a year.

Fall 2018 rolls around and I notice that the older bars lines have faded and are getting a bit fuzzy near the kite. So I roll everything out and measure the line lengths.

21.35m (rear) - 11.31 (front) = 10.04m difference oldest bar
21.64m (rear) - 11.42m (front) = 10.22m difference newest bar

Evan lists 19.75m (front) and 11.45m (rear) I assume there is a typo here

21.75m (rear) - 11.45m (front) difference 10.30m difference brand new - I believe that is correct

Duotone told me that the rear lines on a 22m set of lines are 21.73m brand new

you can see my rear lines shrank 40cm over the course of a year

if i were to buy stock lines, i would have to shorten the rear lines by 26cm (actually 22cm since the front lines are 4cm long at full power) to make them work with my old bar. There is not enough adjustment in the pigtails to accommodate this

or i could replace all of the leader lines - those however, look in very good shape and I think I can get another year out of them

I found someone on ebay who would make me custom line sets from Liros (rear) and Eurocord (front) lines and ordered those.

Best kiteboarding had eurocord black lines on their bars and they were noticeably stiffer and the kite was more reactive.

Both the Liros and Eurocord have a smoother finish and a tighter braid. They are also sk99 dyneema versus the sk75 duotone lines

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby purdyd » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:09 pm

I've used q powerline pro in the past

It does stretch, especially when new. I don't believe it is pre stretched. I had some red, white, and blue lines that I bought out of Australia as I remember and they lasted forever. I stopped using them because I ended up with a bar with a single line flag out that wouldn't let the knots on the q powerline pro through

I don't think q powerline eliminated line stretch but I found it easy to adjust and sometimes just pulled hard on the lines to equal them out.

the pro version at least was not especially stiff, but they would last seemingly forever. You did have to deal with some color rubbing off when new.

I went to North kites last year and the click bar. This is the first time in a long time that I have had to deal with kite lines. I normally would get a couple of years out of a bar and would simply replace the bar. After a couple of years, most of the lines need replacing anyways and there would be some minor improvements along the and the bars were reasonably priced.

The click bar is another game entirely. It is fairly expensive piece of equipment and not something to be replaced lightly and the line replacement from Duotone is also fairly expensive.

For the price I would expect better quality lines.

I saw we test kites had an article on duotone lines https://www.wetestkites.com/

I've also been in contact with Duotone on the kite lines.

I've been extremely pleased with my 2018 North Evo kites and click bar overall. I see no reason I wouldn't buy from Duotone again the future. I do hope that will have the option to buy a bar with better lines.

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rogue_kiteboarder
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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby rogue_kiteboarder » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:26 pm

omg wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:22 am
Foil wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:27 am
Kees wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:49 pm
They list as 22 meter + 2 meter extensions I believe :thumb:
It's not that simple, front lines are many meters shorter, I have just replaced mine with power Q lines, so simple as lines do not need any sort of sleeving, just cut and tie off, many times stronger, so simple.
Not cheap!
Q-Power Pro sounds interesting, where did you buy them from, please?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrGrapvnecT/

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby evan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:19 am

purdyd wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:47 pm
Evan lists 19.75m (front) and 11.45m (rear) I assume there is a typo here
You must have read that wrong, I did type:
11.45m powerlines
19.75m steering lines :wink:

for 22m they use 2m extensions, at least on the new 2018 bar I had to take my measurements from.


Getting precise measurements on lines is hard, as even most measuring tapes will stretch at least a few mm's when you pull on them over that length and the lines itself are even more elastic. Could be that my measurements are therefore a few cm's different to what the manufacturer has listed. But if I use the same measuring tape and pulling forces the lines I make should be the correct length.

0.4m shrinkage is extreme, most I had measured till now was 0.3m. Another reason to ditch those weak lines.
Did a short test last year on slightly used (still free of any fraying) North lines vs the 1.1mm SK99 lines I use as steering lines:
https://www.facebook.com/infexionkitebo ... 8831455168
The Spliced FL10 ranged from 131-183kg and the 1.1mm SK99 from 260-300kg

That is on fresh splices whith no fraying on the end of the splice where the lines bends en weakens the most. To make the lines last longer I make the splices 300mm long and taper them properly compared to the lazy straight cuts those big factories use on only 100-120mm splices.

It boggles my mind that there are lines with the same thickness that are 4x as strong as Duotone uses when spliced and yet you see those teamriders risk their lives megalooping on that stuff, or are they on custom/better lines?

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby purdyd » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:31 pm

evan wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:19 am
purdyd wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:47 pm
Evan lists 19.75m (front) and 11.45m (rear) I assume there is a typo here
You must have read that wrong, I did type:
11.45m powerlines
19.75m steering lines :wink:

for 22m they use 2m extensions, at least on the new 2018 bar I had to take my measurements from.


Getting precise measurements on lines is hard, as even most measuring tapes will stretch at least a few mm's when you pull on them over that length and the lines itself are even more elastic. Could be that my measurements are therefore a few cm's different to what the manufacturer has listed. But if I use the same measuring tape and pulling forces the lines I make should be the correct length.


I guess I am confused because you have 8.3 meters difference between front and rear lines and I am measuring over 10 meters.

I have the 22m line set and the rear lines are roughly 21.75 meters and the rear lines are roughly 11.45. That is without any extensions.

I agree measuring can be difficult but there should not be 2 meters difference.

I believe north offered two line sets with the 2018 click bar; 20m and 22m both came with 2m extensions so you could make them 22m and 24m respecitvely.

I think that the 20 meter line set should be 19.75m rear and 9.45m front. Not the 11.45m you have listed.

Unless north Duotone made a running change in production and there are two configurations out there.

Perhaps someone else can do a quick measurement to verify the lengths?

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby evan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Found the error on my measurements:

For 20m it is:
9.45m front
19.75 back

And 22m:
11.45 front
21.75 back

Got those two mixed up somehow....

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Re: North Clickbar's front and back line lengths (when replacing lines)?

Postby purdyd » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:28 pm

Thanks for checking your numbers. Good to have the measurements for new lines.


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