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Cabrinha Moto

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nixmatters
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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby nixmatters » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:33 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm
Thats great comparison although I’m surprised that Moto 14 had less low end power than sb since it is a heavier kite. Maybe in LW Moto sits further on the edge or wind windows since it’s ligher kite? SB looks to have higher AR hence it will deal with high end winds better than Moto I’m guessing.
It would interesting to know if you could go up wind better on Moto or sb in LW?
Let's get things right here :)
SB has the better low end power due to slightly higher AR + flatter shape = higher projected area with higher AR. And Moto should handle better in the high end, having a more closed shape and a lower projected area AR.
Moto's lighter weight and faster turning can make it up in very light winds, as Jake mentioned above, if you keep it moving and get those extra few knots apparent wind. Going upwnd - if you're good enough with the board, I would definately put my bet on the SB.

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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby Tony in FL » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:15 am

I have done some more demoing since my last post. One day I rode a 12M and 14M of both the Switchblade and the Moto. It is hard to be certain due to ever changing wind conditions but my thoughts are as follows: The SB definitely has more grunt. For park and ride with light wind the SB wins hands down. However, the Moto is a faster moving kite and this can help offset it being less powerful. I was pleasantly surprised at how low of winds in could ride the 14M Moto by zipping it around and throwing lots of loops. The 14M SB is slow in comparison, so I would not be surprised if I could go in as low (or perhaps lower) wind on the 14M Moto due to it moving much faster. Now the 12M SB has more speed than the 14M SB, although still less than the 12M Moto. But I got the feeling I could probably do better with the 12M SB in light winds than the 12M Moto (moving both of them aggressively).
These users thanked the author Tony in FL for the post (total 3):
THOR_NADO (Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:59 am) • SENDIT! (Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:53 pm) • SolarSet (Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:00 pm)
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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby SENDIT! » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:53 pm

Tony in FL wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:15 am
I have done some more demoing since my last post. One day I rode a 12M and 14M of both the Switchblade and the Moto. It is hard to be certain due to ever changing wind conditions but my thoughts are as follows: The SB definitely has more grunt. For park and ride with light wind the SB wins hands down. However, the Moto is a faster moving kite and this can help offset it being less powerful. I was pleasantly surprised at how low of winds in could ride the 14M Moto by zipping it around and throwing lots of loops. The 14M SB is slow in comparison, so I would not be surprised if I could go in as low (or perhaps lower) wind on the 14M Moto due to it moving much faster. Now the 12M SB has more speed than the 14M SB, although still less than the 12M Moto. But I got the feeling I could probably do better with the 12M SB in light winds than the 12M Moto (moving both of them aggressively).
Nice feedback, Tony! :thumb:

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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby Cab Driver » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:07 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:33 pm
SolarSet wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm
Thats great comparison although I’m surprised that Moto 14 had less low end power than sb since it is a heavier kite. Maybe in LW Moto sits further on the edge or wind windows since it’s ligher kite? SB looks to have higher AR hence it will deal with high end winds better than Moto I’m guessing.
It would interesting to know if you could go up wind better on Moto or sb in LW?
Let's get things right here :)
SB has the better low end power due to slightly higher AR + flatter shape = higher projected area with higher AR. And Moto should handle better in the high end, having a more closed shape and a lower projected area AR.
Moto's lighter weight and faster turning can make it up in very light winds, as Jake mentioned above, if you keep it moving and get those extra few knots apparent wind. Going upwnd - if you're good enough with the board, I would definately put my bet on the SB.

The two kites have completely different profiles (and LE diameters) aside from the obvious number of struts, outline, A/R, Arc, sweep, bridling (bridling is more important that one might imagine), etc. These different profiles make a huge difference on how the two kites fly. They play in the same space, and can be compared for feel and performance in a myriad of conditions, but they are totally different. My opinion is that the Moto is faster (both turning and through the sky), more playful, and lighter feeling, while the Switchblade is more stable, has a larger wind range, is a better sheet and go powerplant in light wind, and has better hangtime. To get even more technical, on a foilboard, the Switchblade noses down a bit when flying off the front lines and the Moto doesn't do this as much.

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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby rleshem » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:50 pm

Hi cabdriver

Do you know the weight difference for a 10m?
Also, is the leading edge diameter smaller on the Moto ?

Thanks

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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby Cab Driver » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:58 pm

rleshem wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:50 pm
Hi cabdriver

Do you know the weight difference for a 10m?
Also, is the leading edge diameter smaller on the Moto ?

Thanks
Hi there. I don't know the exact weight difference, but it's two strut casings, two strut bladders, the valves on the LE plus the hoses/bits, some pulleys, a couple m of bridle line, and a two-ply of material that are less on the Moto, but the additional of two TE mini battens. There is certainly some sort of difference.

LE is smaller diameter on the Moto.

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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby PusherII » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:34 pm


Whitebalance
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Re: Cabrinha Moto

Postby Whitebalance » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:26 pm

My experience with Moto. I am doing bit of everything but rarely use 10m2 for waves. Before I was riding FX and did a basic unhook and freeride tricks. Then kiteloops began to get more popular and I tried to learn them with FX but my heart was on full pump mode when the FX yank set in. You really feel the raw power when FX loops. Yes, it catches you fast and does nice landing loops aso, but it was scary to loop FX for learning loops.

Then I had a demo with 9m2 Switchblade, 9m2 Moto and 9m2 FX.

In loops FX has strong pull that scares. Switchblade won in height but it was slower to loop so the kite went lower and I did not feel that it's 100% committed, it slowed down at the bottom and it felt weird while looping. Moto was so nice in loops, did not get the height of Switchblade but the loops are so pleasant. Going looping with automatic gearbox, where user input is not needed. Sheet just little bit out and it catches you so nicely. Moto can have grunt but the delivery is smooth. I feel also safe to kiteloops with 10m2 Moto.

Moto wingtips turn little bit inwards as Drifter - this gives it the wave, foil downwind abilities. I think this is why it does not jump so high and why low end is picky to bar position. When I compare the time I was riding FX I got 10% higher then now.

Moto needs user input as it is easy to oversheet, you have to feel the kite. With Switchblade its easier in that sense that you just pull the bar to the max and the tractor starts to work. When foiling or in waves I really love that I can over sheet or play with the power delivery to get the most out of it.

Playfulness of Moto is so nice that I have really hard to trade it for height.

Wind range:
FOIL: with foil I can ride until the kite falls down from the sky. Moto flies until pretty light winds and until it stays up I can foil.
TT: I think Switchblade had very good low end. I weight quite a lot and the pull on low wind was better with Switchblade. But I would go anyways then with Contra or go foiling. Big Air I chase WOO. When I was super overpowered with FX it felt I will fly away - to keep the kite in the edge of the window was really hard and when the wind set in then sometimes the only way to stop the speed was to put hand into water and use it as anchor. Although the more in window position did not allow to ride the kite full overpower then it holded shape very well. Moto in full overpower feels safe. Even if the wind rises you up from water with full depower then it gently drops you back. But to keep the kite with good shape in overpowered condition jumps then you need to pump it hard - atleast for my weight. I have also felt Switchblade doing tricks when coming down from high jumps with landing loops. I feel it with other brands as well. Moto seems to be more picky on the pump pressure to work rock solid.

Even though the low end might be better on Switchblade, I would trade it off for the speed of Moto in low wind conditions.


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