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Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

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butterfish
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Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby butterfish » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:49 pm

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Matteo V (Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:38 am)
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Matteo V
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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:06 pm

Ummmm...........

I thought we (kiters who have used Old North, and now new Duotone) all knew that North lines are the worst in the industry. They last less than one season, should never be purchased "used" and need to be inspected EVERY session. Also, if "some" wear is showing on North (Duotone) lines, the lines should not be used. Where as, "some" line wear is acceptable on Naish, Cabrinha, Slingshot, and even my Jerry Brown Spectra homemade linesets.

Aren't there tons of threads on this forum alone on these terrible lines?

P.S. Best lines were this junk for a while.
P.P.S The lines inside of the "Click Bar" mechanism looks like Kayak rudder control line - which is Spectra/Dyneema, but wears out all the time in that application too.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby mmac » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:27 pm

Hmmm, that sounds harsh Matteo. I've been using North/Duotone bars for many years. Fortunately, I've never broken one of their lines. I live near the ocean and ride year round. I find that I get 3 years out of my lines before I replace them for safety (I do rotate 2 bars and take care of them). That seems like reasonable wear considering how much I use them.
Like all things, I understand that some people experience breakage due to rare circumstances (a manufacturing flaw, damage due to abrasions, etc). However, it sounds like there is room for improvement. Since this is an important safety issue, it would be great to see Duotone and all kite companies provide the highest quality and strongest lines available.

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cglazier
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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby cglazier » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:51 pm

We have plenty of North/Duotone kites in use around here and their lines seem to hold up well.. comparable to other top brands.

My only complaint is that they use a high Y line configuration. This forces you to buy the bar and unequal lines just from them. They say that the high Y is used for performance reasons but I hear other kiters report that their North/Duotone kites fly just fine with the more common 'four equal line' bar configurations.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby ScoopZ » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Is that an April fools joke? seems a bit early.

Not a patch on Slingshot, Airush and Ozone. Avoid duotone unless you've got a contract, freak line brakes are the ultimate no no (seen evidence). There's a reason why north/duotone went out of fashion at my local beach, a reduction (or stagnation) in build quality from years past, spoken by those that fly them.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby nixmatters » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:22 am

Hm.... so what would be the outcome if these North/Duotone lines (FL-10, right?) are used for some decent loopingwith with a low-V setup?! :roll:
...just thinking if there might be any connection between the two?

Any thoughts?

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:36 am

mmac wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:27 pm
Hmmm, that sounds harsh Matteo. I've been using North/Duotone bars for many years.
This is my experience and the general consensus of every rider I meet who has used, or is using North (now Duotone) lines. They are junk and do not last.

However, I do know what they are going for with these lines. Given the looser, thus lower angle braid, these lines are very thin and strong initially. There is also less material in loose braids there since a tighter braid takes up more length of fibers for a given finished length. Q-powerline has no braid (except the sheath) which gives maximum efficiency and minimum stress due to there being no braid. Technically, these North (now Duotone) lines are higher performance initially. But they do not remain that way.

Sorry I do not have time for a graphic, but I will try to explain.

Given a 6 strand loose braid:
Cut strand # 2 and #5 20cm apart, and the braid does not self tighten (friction) thus you are down to only 4 strands of strength.

Given a 12 strand tight braid:
Cut strand #2, #5, and #8 20cm apart, and the braid self tightens (friction) to make the total strength equal to around 11strands.

This is hard to visualize, but it does give you an explanation why loose braid is the same or better (in Dyneema/Spectra), but only initially. Once wear is factored in, the better line is the tight braid.

I have used 4 North bars, and 3+ Best bars (same line), along with lots of bulk line including Q-Power line. I have used lots of other bars and the North/Best lines are inferior over time, to anything else I have used. Tight braid makes a huge difference. Given that I am 100+kg, I no longer use Best/North lines for front lines where the major load is. Not just for wear, but because stretch is a huge issue at my weight too. I now only use North/Best lines as rear lines. Again, I have a good amount of experience in this in high wear, and low wear kite locations.


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