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Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

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butterfish
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Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby butterfish » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:49 pm

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Matteo V
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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:06 pm

Ummmm...........

I thought we (kiters who have used Old North, and now new Duotone) all knew that North lines are the worst in the industry. They last less than one season, should never be purchased "used" and need to be inspected EVERY session. Also, if "some" wear is showing on North (Duotone) lines, the lines should not be used. Where as, "some" line wear is acceptable on Naish, Cabrinha, Slingshot, and even my Jerry Brown Spectra homemade linesets.

Aren't there tons of threads on this forum alone on these terrible lines?

P.S. Best lines were this junk for a while.
P.P.S The lines inside of the "Click Bar" mechanism looks like Kayak rudder control line - which is Spectra/Dyneema, but wears out all the time in that application too.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby mmac » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:27 pm

Hmmm, that sounds harsh Matteo. I've been using North/Duotone bars for many years. Fortunately, I've never broken one of their lines. I live near the ocean and ride year round. I find that I get 3 years out of my lines before I replace them for safety (I do rotate 2 bars and take care of them). That seems like reasonable wear considering how much I use them.
Like all things, I understand that some people experience breakage due to rare circumstances (a manufacturing flaw, damage due to abrasions, etc). However, it sounds like there is room for improvement. Since this is an important safety issue, it would be great to see Duotone and all kite companies provide the highest quality and strongest lines available.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby cglazier » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:51 pm

We have plenty of North/Duotone kites in use around here and their lines seem to hold up well.. comparable to other top brands.

My only complaint is that they use a high Y line configuration. This forces you to buy the bar and unequal lines just from them. They say that the high Y is used for performance reasons but I hear other kiters report that their North/Duotone kites fly just fine with the more common 'four equal line' bar configurations.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby ScoopZ » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Is that an April fools joke? seems a bit early.

Not a patch on Slingshot, Airush and Ozone. Avoid duotone unless you've got a contract, freak line brakes are the ultimate no no (seen evidence). There's a reason why north/duotone went out of fashion at my local beach, a reduction (or stagnation) in build quality from years past, spoken by those that fly them.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby nixmatters » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:22 am

Hm.... so what would be the outcome if these North/Duotone lines (FL-10, right?) are used for some decent loopingwith with a low-V setup?! :roll:
...just thinking if there might be any connection between the two?

Any thoughts?

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:36 am

mmac wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:27 pm
Hmmm, that sounds harsh Matteo. I've been using North/Duotone bars for many years.
This is my experience and the general consensus of every rider I meet who has used, or is using North (now Duotone) lines. They are junk and do not last.

However, I do know what they are going for with these lines. Given the looser, thus lower angle braid, these lines are very thin and strong initially. There is also less material in loose braids there since a tighter braid takes up more length of fibers for a given finished length. Q-powerline has no braid (except the sheath) which gives maximum efficiency and minimum stress due to there being no braid. Technically, these North (now Duotone) lines are higher performance initially. But they do not remain that way.

Sorry I do not have time for a graphic, but I will try to explain.

Given a 6 strand loose braid:
Cut strand # 2 and #5 20cm apart, and the braid does not self tighten (friction) thus you are down to only 4 strands of strength.

Given a 12 strand tight braid:
Cut strand #2, #5, and #8 20cm apart, and the braid self tightens (friction) to make the total strength equal to around 11strands.

This is hard to visualize, but it does give you an explanation why loose braid is the same or better (in Dyneema/Spectra), but only initially. Once wear is factored in, the better line is the tight braid.

I have used 4 North bars, and 3+ Best bars (same line), along with lots of bulk line including Q-Power line. I have used lots of other bars and the North/Best lines are inferior over time, to anything else I have used. Tight braid makes a huge difference. Given that I am 100+kg, I no longer use Best/North lines for front lines where the major load is. Not just for wear, but because stretch is a huge issue at my weight too. I now only use North/Best lines as rear lines. Again, I have a good amount of experience in this in high wear, and low wear kite locations.
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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby mmac » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 pm

Gotcha, I understand. I trust my life on the Duotone lines so I don't believe they're "junk" as some have referenced. However, it sounds like there is definitely room for improvement, especially as the lines age. I'm all for safety and look forward to Duotone and other manufacturers improving and providing the best lines available.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby Macster » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:24 am

I have 4 bars I have been using for 1-2 years now.

2017 Cabrinha
2017 Ozone
2018 Ozone
2016 North

The new 2018 Ozone lines feel awesome and look good but after just 10 sessions (lots of kiteloops) are already fluffing up and showing wear where they cross in the centre. Not sure how they will last...?

The 2017 ozone lines have been used 30 times maybe, are the older material and seem to be holding up better than the new zone line material...

Cabrinha lines look and feel amazing and have had at least 60 sessions and heaps of looping.

North lines look like crap, feel like crap and have had about 40 sessions but they haven't broken. I am reluctant to loop and jump on these lines just cause of how thin and fragile they look but there is t much science to that statement.

Based on these 4 bar and lines, Id have to say Cabrinha lines for freestyle and looping and ozone for foiling / racing.

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Re: Duotone Line Test - wtf?!

Postby kite_hh » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:00 am

I currently use a Cabrinha and North bar.

Both from around 2014/2015. The lines on the North are much less rigid compared to the Cabrinha lines (which I like) which are really stiff and make a more durable impression on me.

At first I thought this was a quality issue, but by reading around I got the impression it is due to a different material and there is no underlying quality issue.

Just recently I inspected both bar lines thoroughly for safety reasons. I couldn't find any issue on both of them. They work just fine and I trust both of them fully.

Is it maybe only the recent lines (after 2014) that have deteriorated in quality? Mine are totally fine.


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