Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 50343
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 95 kg
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Favorite Beaches: same
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2364 times
Contact:

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Toby » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:50 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:43 am
Good ridance to overpriced, over technical, high maintanance middle aged rich peoples flying sleeping bags.

May they go the way of the kite raceboard. Send with them... click bars and everything else that makes kiting less accessible for youth.
Aren’t these people the reason while the sport developed that far?
And at then end poor people also gain from it.
E.g. Freestyle world champ Carlos Mario from Brasil.

Do you have any idea how his life would look like if there wasn’t this sport with all these people brought money into the sport and everything around it?

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3676
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Master Baiter. Oracle of windsport.
Gear: 2 sets of Flysurfer VMGs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, 18. Foilboards ( Masts 75 90 110 125 Wings 880 950 1100 1350 1750) all with Ronix Ones attached. Soon to retire to Wingfoiling.
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 am

Toby wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:50 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:43 am
Good ridance to overpriced, over technical, high maintanance middle aged rich peoples flying sleeping bags.

May they go the way of the kite raceboard. Send with them... click bars and everything else that makes kiting less accessible for youth.
Aren’t these people the reason while the sport developed that far?
And at then end poor people also gain from it.
E.g. Freestyle world champ Carlos Mario from Brazil.

Do you have any idea how his life would look like if there wasn’t this sport with all these people brought money into the sport and everything around it?
IMO kiteboarding got worse with these $people$ involved. All time low rate of younger riders, and i'm even talking under 35s!, coming into the sport. It has been twisted into something that it does not need to be. Kiteboarding is a high performance sport even with the least expensive equipment. The same happened in windsurfing - it is happening right now with kiting. No long term business goals - just dry up the sport until there are mainly only a bunch of high paying 60 somethings left relatively in the world - that would be windsurfing today...

The interest and comments (other than mine) on World sailing kiting events on this website has been pretty much zero. That wasnt the case with kiteboarder run PRKA or even KPWT events, the sport was progressing at a fast rate and young riders wanted in, not any more. It was appealing, super progressive, not fragmented. It was also directed by kiters from the very top down - that helps. To think that a company like WS would invest in another sport without wanting financial return is insane. They are in it for one reason - Government subsidies. The exact same issues are happening with olympic skateboarding and potential olympic SUP, vultures loom with $$ on their mind creating division between riders, trying to reinvent teh sports for their own advertising purpose - taking away some of the elements that make the sport what it is.
The tour that Mario did, no NZ rider could afford to compete and make it viable.

Many of the top freestyle riders cannot make a reasonable living, they get by - some of them anyway.

As far as the sports development goes, I ride a fairly new kite and have an 8 year old kite - no difference to me. Foils and foilboards are not affordable to most and have increased the gap also.

There are less young riders than there ever have been here.


As for Carlos Mario, he is going to want other young riders to froth with other wise he will just go and take up surfing/skating or whatever. Actually those Brazilian ripper are a true example of how the sport has not developed equipment wise for freestyle. Those kids kill it on 10 year old kit no problem. That is epic.

Sleeping bags are for sleeping in.

User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 50343
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 95 kg
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Favorite Beaches: same
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2364 times
Contact:

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Toby » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:55 am

How much more can you develop a kite?

Wrong, the guys who could afford the tour back then and now, where rich kids.
Some poor kids made it, like from Brazil and DR.

Aaron had cash behind him.

I remember myself stuck in Germany during winter, while the ones with money could afford spending winter somewhere warm and train...next summer season they had another level.

Same back then.

Back then kids wanted to get into the game, because it looked awesome! Big air!
Freestyle killed it...but now the sport has more attraction again.

I see more kids now then back then!
Many father and sons...didn’t used to be like that.

Way more women!

I used to pay 1500 DM for a kite, now it’s 1500 Euro....price doubled.
I used to pay 1 DM for one liter of fuel, now I pay 1,50 Euro (3 DM).

Everything got more expensive!

So what’s your point? Your rant against WS I guess.
These users thanked the author Toby for the post:
Kitemanmuc (Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 am)
Rating: 3.03%

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3676
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Master Baiter. Oracle of windsport.
Gear: 2 sets of Flysurfer VMGs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, 18. Foilboards ( Masts 75 90 110 125 Wings 880 950 1100 1350 1750) all with Ronix Ones attached. Soon to retire to Wingfoiling.
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:56 pm

My point is that I think investment from non kiting entities - brands that are backed by multinational shareholders that do not kite, and organisations (ws for example), have had a negative effect on kiteboarding.

I think it is shortsighted even for industry to concentrate so much on high margin middle aged marketing... foil kites /foilboards , clickbars, specialist boards, specialist kites... that kind of thing That time you talk of, the kite media was full of articles and advertising that stoked up youth. I already see a missing generation of kiters.


I don't think what is happening is healthy, I am in full agreement with Bruno L actually. A view I had before I heard his.

We always had a fair few women kiters. They are hard out!

Yep there always was an element of cashed up trust funders, good for them, but no need to make things even more out of reach (for example swapping from a wakeboard to a twintip mid heat - rediculous idea!) and with the crazy levels we see to try and add unnecessary perceived value to kiteboarding products - hence the crazy prices.

I like wakestyle but I agree it does have to take some of the blame, at the time some of the riders were so up their own asses about attaching themselves to their board in their $600 boots, holding onto their handlebars, sliding on their $1000 slider with their kite in the air to balance - it was embarrassing, some are probably foiling today lol. I think it put quite a few young riders off the sport.

User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 50343
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Weight: 95 kg
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Favorite Beaches: same
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2364 times
Contact:

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Toby » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:28 pm

Older people like less risk.
Back then it was more risk, due to mo or bad QR and less depower in kites.
Less lessons etc.

Now it is more secure to approach the sport, so this also attacks more older people, who have some more cash to spend.

Why is this bad?

Again, I see more kids and women now than in the first 10 years

User avatar
iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2618
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Weight: 80kg, 1.78m
Local Beach: West & East Wittering (UK South Coast)
Style: Make it up as I go along
Gear: Bars, Kites
Twintips, Directional
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Noviomagus Reginorum
Has thanked: 554 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby iriejohn » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:26 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:43 am
Good ridance to overpriced, over technical, high maintanance middle aged rich peoples flying sleeping bags.

May they go the way of the kite raceboard. Send with them... click bars and everything else that makes kiting less accessible for youth.
Given that you say that you don't like the direction kiteboarding is going, would you please propose a practical alternative?

Thanks.
longwhitecloud wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 am
Toby wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:50 pm
longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:43 am
Good ridance to overpriced, over technical, high maintanance middle aged rich peoples flying sleeping bags.

May they go the way of the kite raceboard. Send with them... click bars and everything else that makes kiting less accessible for youth.
Aren’t these people the reason while the sport developed that far?
And at then end poor people also gain from it.
E.g. Freestyle world champ Carlos Mario from Brazil.

Do you have any idea how his life would look like if there wasn’t this sport with all these people brought money into the sport and everything around it?
IMO kiteboarding got worse with these $people$ involved. All time low rate of younger riders, and i'm even talking under 35s!, coming into the sport. It has been twisted into something that it does not need to be. Kiteboarding is a high performance sport even with the least expensive equipment. The same happened in windsurfing - it is happening right now with kiting. No long term business goals - just dry up the sport until there are mainly only a bunch of high paying 60 somethings left relatively in the world - that would be windsurfing today...

The interest and comments (other than mine) on World sailing kiting events on this website has been pretty much zero. That wasnt the case with kiteboarder run PRKA or even KPWT events, the sport was progressing at a fast rate and young riders wanted in, not any more. It was appealing, super progressive, not fragmented. It was also directed by kiters from the very top down - that helps. To think that a company like WS would invest in another sport without wanting financial return is insane. They are in it for one reason - Government subsidies. The exact same issues are happening with olympic skateboarding and potential olympic SUP, vultures loom with $$ on their mind creating division between riders, trying to reinvent teh sports for their own advertising purpose - taking away some of the elements that make the sport what it is.
The tour that Mario did, no NZ rider could afford to compete and make it viable.

Many of the top freestyle riders cannot make a reasonable living, they get by - some of them anyway.

As far as the sports development goes, I ride a fairly new kite and have an 8 year old kite - no difference to me. Foils and foilboards are not affordable to most and have increased the gap also.

There are less young riders than there ever have been here.


As for Carlos Mario, he is going to want other young riders to froth with other wise he will just go and take up surfing/skating or whatever. Actually those Brazilian ripper are a true example of how the sport has not developed equipment wise for freestyle. Those kids kill it on 10 year old kit no problem. That is epic.

Sleeping bags are for sleeping in.
longwhitecloud wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:56 pm
My point is that I think investment from non kiting entities - brands that are backed by multinational shareholders that do not kite, and organisations (ws for example), have had a negative effect on kiteboarding.

I think it is shortsighted even for industry to concentrate so much on high margin middle aged marketing... foil kites /foilboards , clickbars, specialist boards, specialist kites... that kind of thing That time you talk of, the kite media was full of articles and advertising that stoked up youth. I already see a missing generation of kiters.


I don't think what is happening is healthy, I am in full agreement with Bruno L actually. A view I had before I heard his.

We always had a fair few women kiters. They are hard out!

Yep there always was an element of cashed up trust funders, good for them, but no need to make things even more out of reach (for example swapping from a wakeboard to a twintip mid heat - rediculous idea!) and with the crazy levels we see to try and add unnecessary perceived value to kiteboarding products - hence the crazy prices.

I like wakestyle but I agree it does have to take some of the blame, at the time some of the riders were so up their own asses about attaching themselves to their board in their $600 boots, holding onto their handlebars, sliding on their $1000 slider with their kite in the air to balance - it was embarrassing, some are probably foiling today lol. I think it put quite a few young riders off the sport.

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3676
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Master Baiter. Oracle of windsport.
Gear: 2 sets of Flysurfer VMGs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, 18. Foilboards ( Masts 75 90 110 125 Wings 880 950 1100 1350 1750) all with Ronix Ones attached. Soon to retire to Wingfoiling.
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:35 am

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles ... rnance-row

Let IKFO , that is kiteboarding controlled from the very top down, that has the support of the inventor of kiteboarding and other respected kiteboarding originators control the legal aspect of who owns the rights to the term world kiteboarding champion.

This will stop litigation towards kiteboarder events organisers by world sailing. It will also stop World Sailing from being able to ban riders for entering these 'rival' events. There was a test case that said this was an illegal practice in europe recently.

World Sailing puts themselves and riders at huge risk/ liability attempting to risk manage kiteboarding safety. If you watch the online videos of the World Sailing meetings you will see they do not even understand the very basics of the sport, lrt alone having tried it. They voted for kiteboarding ( even members that vited for it didnt really wantnit) as the ioc siad they would cut funding if they did not.


No one has a better understanding of kiteboarding than kiteboarders themselves.

mikesids
Medium Poster
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:15 pm
Local Beach: Pt Chev, Auckland
Favorite Beaches: Aitutaki lagoon, Cook Islands
Style: Foil, surf, speed, jumping, freestyle
Gear: F One Furtives / FS Souls for speed, Airush Ultra's for freeride foiling , Chrono UL for freerace foiling, Parks, Bandit and Union for all round, JShapes / Levitaz / Spitfire XLW foil, F One AC21 Speed boards, Groove Skate
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby mikesids » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:16 am

What's wrong with the GKA and IKA - surely they both know something about kiteboarding? Expression-type events and racing events covered between them.

I wasn't kiting back then ( was windsurfing) but I distinctly recall the" chicken loops are for sissies" arguments from years ago. Utter BS. Things move on. Personally I am stoked to not have my modern kiting choices restricted to a C kite with minimal depower and a 120cm long twin tip as it was in the "good old days".

There is no conspiracy. It is simply progress and the maturation of a sport. You need to chill , and get back to the simple joys of harnessing windpower on the water . In my opinion.

I assume you are a fellow Kiwi ( from your user name) in which case I would hope that you are not also advocating a return to 12 metre boats for the America's Cup !!!!

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3676
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Master Baiter. Oracle of windsport.
Gear: 2 sets of Flysurfer VMGs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, 18. Foilboards ( Masts 75 90 110 125 Wings 880 950 1100 1350 1750) all with Ronix Ones attached. Soon to retire to Wingfoiling.
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:23 am

mikesids wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:16 am
What's wrong with the GKA and IKA - surely they both know something about kiteboarding? Expression-type events and racing events covered between them.

I wasn't kiting back then ( was windsurfing) but I distinctly recall the" chicken loops are for sissies" arguments from years ago. Utter BS. Things move on. Personally I am stoked to not have my modern kiting choices restricted to a C kite with minimal depower and a 120cm long twin tip as it was in the "good old days".

There is no conspiracy. It is simply progress and the maturation of a sport. You need to chill , and get back to the simple joys of harnessing windpower on the water . In my opinion.

I assume you are a fellow Kiwi ( from your user name) in which case I would hope that you are not also advocating a return to 12 metre boats for the America's Cup !!!!
Chicken loops are for sissies was a maui thing 1999- 2001 when 4 line kites first came out... hardly any kiters Dont' think we will be going back there in a hurry.

Kite equipment took a dramatic change over 10 years ago now. I kite foiled in maui over 11 years ago with a high depower kite. Even the patented naish push release used by nearly all manufacturers now, existed then.

I got no time for those organisations, they are an embarassment to kiteboarding IMO.

GKA compete in one freestyle heat with 2 different style boards.. one wakestyle , one twintip. Possibly the most rediculous competition in all of kiteboarding history.

IKA - the organisation that failed in its bid to control $kiteboarding after intervention from Robby Naish who was very public in his critisism of the organisation. Now only involved with racing ( maybe speed too?). Thanks Robby Naish.

Nothing wrong with short twintips, try one when it is nuking out west.. they rock, or airstyle..!?

I would never entrust the safety of a different sport ( especially young riders), controlled by another sport ( world sailing). It's a huge liability for sailing organisations, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the $hit hits the fan. Look at the stats.. over half of all deaths from kiteboarding occur from the flying aspect of the sport.

Greed. I hope we see big changes in the attempted destructuring ( sailing had nothing to do with kiteboarding until there was a sniff of olympic funding) of kiteboarding.

Kiteboarding should be 100% self governing, not these kooks involved.
Even the inventor of kiteboarding agrees, he is horrifed by what has happened too.

No interest in AC, into kiteboarding, not sailing.

User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2715
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 157 times
Been thanked: 288 times

Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Flyboy » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:36 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:23 am

Chicken loops are for sissies was a maui thing 1999- 2001 when 4 line kites first came out... hardly any kiters Dont' think we will be going back there in a hurry.

Kite equipment took a dramatic change over 10 years ago now. I kite foiled in maui over 11 years ago with a high depower kite. Even the patented naish push release used by nearly all manufacturers now, existed then.

I got no time for those organisations, they are an embarassment to kiteboarding IMO.

GKA compete in one freestyle heat with 2 different style boards.. one wakestyle , one twintip. Possibly the most rediculous competition in all of kiteboarding history.

IKA - the organisation that failed in its bid to control $kiteboarding after intervention from Robby Naish who was very public in his critisism of the organisation. Now only involved with racing ( maybe speed too?). Thanks Robby Naish.

Nothing wrong with short twintips, try one when it is nuking out west.. they rock, or airstyle..!?

I would never entrust the safety of a different sport ( especially young riders), controlled by another sport ( world sailing). It's a huge liability for sailing organisations, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes when the $hit hits the fan. Look at the stats.. over half of all deaths from kiteboarding occur from the flying aspect of the sport.

Greed. I hope we see big changes in the attempted destructuring ( sailing had nothing to do with kiteboarding until there was a sniff of olympic funding) of kiteboarding.

Kiteboarding should be 100% self governing, not these kooks involved.
Even the inventor of kiteboarding agrees, he is horrifed by what has happened too.

No interest in AC, into kiteboarding, not sailing.
I suspect most people kiting have little interest in GKA, IKA, WS or any other aspect of organized kiteboarding. They kite for the enjoyment of it, whether it's TT, SB, foil or any combination of them.

My daughter kites & I see plenty of other young people getting into the sport, but kiteboarding is not as accessible to young people as many other sports - it requires (in most cases) a vehicle to reach the location for kiting & a fair amount of equipment. I couldn't care less if kiteboarding becomes more popular, less popular, more structured or destructured or anything else ...as long as I have access to the water & can do what I love to do, I'll be happy.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aberdovy kiter, andylc, Baidu [Spider], Chriz76, DanielorDani, decay, Dirk, Google [Bot], htsc, nixmatters, xoen and 394 guests