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Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

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Matteo V
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:20 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 pm
Well, practically, and statistically you're safer on water with inflatable. I saw few exploded/deflated LEIs and had it happen to me but if you do pinch strut valves you still have plenty of flotation in the kite.

It's a BS topic. Just like arguing why a race car is better/worse than an SUV but there are facts about each which you can't twist.
Statistically you are safer flying than driving. So does that mean safety should be taken less seriously by the aviation industry than it is in the auto industry?

And speaking of statistically....

1. How many people on the beach with inflatables DO NOT pinch off their struts? - about 40% by my observations

2. How many time have you realized that you forgot to pinch off your struts? - about 10-15% of the time (and yes I feel stupid for that, though only some of my kites are actually single point inflation so some of my kites struts are pumped up individually and just have individual valve closures)

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 pm
Well, practically, and statistically you're safer on water with inflatable.
This is a "BS" statement! No kiter should treat an inflatable less carefully than a foil kite. With both types of kites and enough time kiting, YOU WILL SWIM IN WITH OUT A KITE. Statistically, metaphorically, feeling wise, cool or uncool, or anything else - loosing a foil kite is the same as loosing an inflatable. My response was to specifically make sure that new entrants to this sport, that have not yet had to swim in, don't come away from this thread with the idea that an inflatable WILL save you.

The only thing that should be relied on is swimming skills for the distance you need to swim unaided, along with proper attire to survive the water temps for at least double the time it will take you to swim in.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:20 pm
...And speaking of statistically....

1. How many people on the beach with inflatables DO NOT pinch off their struts? - about 40% by my observations

2. How many time have you realized that you forgot to pinch off your struts? - about 10-15% of the time (and yes I feel stupid for that, though only some of my kites are actually single point inflation so some of my kites struts are pumped up individually and just have individual valve closures)
...
1. I always tell people to do it for exactly same reason
2. almost never. I more often hit the water hard enough that valves crack open and I come back with few unpinched valves

Also inflated kite when ditched floats towards shore nicely when fully released, I saw two within two last weeks do it and one of them was easy to pick up and bring back ashore.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:20 pm
...
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 pm
Well, practically, and statistically you're safer on water with inflatable.
This is a "BS" statement! No kiter should treat an inflatable less carefully than a foil kite. With both types of kites and enough time kiting, YOU WILL SWIM IN WITH OUT A KITE. Statistically, metaphorically, feeling wise, cool or uncool, or anything else - loosing a foil kite is the same as loosing an inflatable. My response was to specifically make sure that new entrants to this sport, that have not yet had to swim in, don't come away from this thread with the idea that an inflatable WILL save you.
...

I'm not arguing false sense of security but i insist that being out in water with multi-chambered inflatable device is safer than being there with a paraglider wing. Ask anyone ranging from a fifthgrader to a coast guard if in doubt.

The only probable reason I'd ditch kite completely is if it tangles on a buoy or pulls me offshore or pulls me into a danger.

I have lower respect for anyone who can't swim. Their parents failed and such people deserve their destiny. They should learn to swim before entering water.
Last edited by grigorib on Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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grigorib
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:04 pm

Also foil racing two weeks back in La Ventana was amazing. Big respect for a dude on yellow ozone who spent 30 minutes but relaunched a mile downwind.

On the other hand several guys on Souls were slower (straight line and looping) and on bigger sizes than my Rallys each time we hanged out for freeride foil sessions. They also probably paid 4x the price of the kite for less performance.

Matteo V
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm

grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
2. almost never. I more often hit the water hard enough that valves crack open and I come back with few unpinched valves
Wow! I never new crashing a kite could un-pinch a strut valve. Learn something new every day....but seems to be kind of making my point about not relying on an inflatable kite to be a lifesaving device.



grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
Also inflated kite when ditched floats towards shore nicely when fully released, I saw two within two last weeks do it and one of them was easy to pick up and bring back ashore.
No arguement here other than....... how did that fully released kite help the kiter swim back? Again, kind of seems to be making my point about not relying on an inflatable kite to be a lifesaving device.



grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
I'm not arguing false sense of security but i insist that being out in water with multi-chambered inflatable device is safer than being there with a paraglider wing. Ask anyone ranging from a fifthgrader to a coast guard if in doubt.
I asked a fifth grader, and he had no idea what I was talking about. I will try to find a fifth grader who kites and will report back.

The 2 coast guard guys I asked both said that you should not rely on an inflatable device that is not intended to float a human being. As tying yourself to it could put you in danger of drowning should the kite flip over in the wind, you can only safely, "hold on". In some ways it is like an over turned boat hull - as it will be easier for rescuers to see, but it could pull you down with it (or just flip on top of you/entangle you making swimming more difficult, in the case of a kite).



grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
Also inflated kite when ditched floats towards shore nicely when fully released, I saw two within two last weeks do it and one of them was easy to pick up and bring back ashore.
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
The only probable reason I'd ditch kite completely is if it tangles on a buoy or pulls me offshore or pulls me into a danger.
Good for you that you have apparently not ditched the kite and had to swim in. However, I would suggest you realize that this can happen to you. I mean, you said you just watched it happen 2 times in the last 2 weeks.... So we can deduce that this is more than a remote possibility??? Correct?



And last question - Do you go out further than you can swim in because you have an inflatable kite instead of a foil kite?

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:42 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
2. almost never. I more often hit the water hard enough that valves crack open and I come back with few unpinched valves
Wow! I never new crashing a kite could un-pinch a strut valve. Learn something new every day....but seems to be kind of making my point about not relying on an inflatable kite to be a lifesaving device.
...
It happens easily, I'm amazed how I don't blow bladders :) One of the explanations I tend to ride newer gear all the time, which is not worn out
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
Also inflated kite when ditched floats towards shore nicely when fully released, I saw two within two last weeks do it and one of them was easy to pick up and bring back ashore.
No arguement here other than....... how did that fully released kite help the kiter swim back? Again, kind of seems to be making my point about not relying on an inflatable kite to be a lifesaving device.
...
I don't think they should have released but they did. You swim back - and don't rely on stuff. But it might be easier to find someone drifting offshore sitting on a huge colorful thing which will stay afloat for hours and hours.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
I'm not arguing false sense of security but i insist that being out in water with multi-chambered inflatable device is safer than being there with a paraglider wing. Ask anyone ranging from a fifthgrader to a coast guard if in doubt.
I asked a fifth grader, and he had no idea what I was talking about. I will try to find a fifth grader who kites and will report back.

The 2 coast guard guys I asked both said that you should not rely on an inflatable device that is not intended to float a human being. As tying yourself to it could put you in danger of drowning should the kite flip over in the wind, you can only safely, "hold on". In some ways it is like an over turned boat hull - as it will be easier for rescuers to see, but it could pull you down with it (or just flip on top of you/entangle you making swimming more difficult, in the case of a kite).
...
It's a smart answer for a question you weren't asking. Everyone can say not to trust your life to anyone or anything. But when you have a choice or make people make the choice and given either a multi-chambered inflatable device or a paraglider a mile offshore I'm sure the coast guards you asked will pick the first, while neither of these are intended to safe human life.
BTW It can all also result in nausea or vomiting, lost of vision, heart attack, stroke, hypothermia, drowning, suffocating, choking if swallowed and all the legal BS they say. Also - don't take any of my advice and always follow manufacturers instruction and seek professional help when in doubt. Add more disclaimer... :)
I, for myself enjoy increased chances when I'm offered them. I guess I was wrong considering any fifthgraders and any coast guards able to reason. I hope there are better ones out there - I pay my taxes for them to study, learn and serve.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
Also inflated kite when ditched floats towards shore nicely when fully released, I saw two within two last weeks do it and one of them was easy to pick up and bring back ashore.
grigorib wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:54 pm
The only probable reason I'd ditch kite completely is if it tangles on a buoy or pulls me offshore or pulls me into a danger.
Good for you that you have apparently not ditched the kite and had to swim in. However, I would suggest you realize that this can happen to you. I mean, you said you just watched it happen 2 times in the last 2 weeks.... So we can deduce that this is more than a remote possibility??? Correct?
...
Yop. They swam back. Well, actually both were towed in - the second one by me personally.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:16 pm
...
And last question - Do you go out further than you can swim in because you have an inflatable kite instead of a foil kite?
I never ride further away than I can swim to start with - it's a rule not to break. I can rest on water fine and I make sure I'm not going to be dead because of hypothermia. With a wetsuit and a jacket on (neither are approved as lifesaving devices, but hell they do increase my chances) it's easier to swim.
Do I feel in more danger a mile offshore - oh, yeah. Do I throw crazy shit out there compared to what I do close to shore - nope :)
But comparing swimins with inflatable to swimins with a foil - I'd opt for the first one

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby PullStrings » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:23 pm

revhed wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:14 am
ALL the competitive Kite Board Hydro Foil racers fly ONLY RAM air kites!
F U PUMPY!
All the racers will come to their senses this year.....say no more low PSI soft twin skins....and say that they really prefer high PSI single skins
Ram air racers will go on strike and demand to pump again
:pump:
Last edited by PullStrings on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Surfkiternew
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby Surfkiternew » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:25 pm

But comparing swimins with inflatable to swimins with a foil - I'd opt for the first one
[/quote]

Thats the point...Easy...

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:33 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:23 pm
...
Maybe someone should organize Foilboard races for LEI kites only....what do you think ?
The TT:R is weird format already. The race is about top performance, top speed, screaming angles, about being first.

LEIs are awesome quicksilver looping kites, but they don’t deliver upwind or angles of foils. And HA inflatables are quite weird except for jumping.

But race world will ditch foil kites and hydrofoils just as they ditched LEIs and formula boards. Just wait for something better to pop up.

Racing is not about loyalty or life safety or cost of equipment. It’s about being first.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby PullStrings » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 pm

Pump me up wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:49 pm
Soft-kites have an approximate market share of 4%, meaning that 96% of all kites sold worldwide are Tube-kites.
:pump:
BREAKING NEWS

Just in !! ** 3% soft vs 97% hard **

** Ram airs are now feeling the extreme 0.75 PSI of pressure between their twin skins **

grigorib
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2019

Postby grigorib » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:06 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 pm
Pump me up wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:49 pm
Soft-kites have an approximate market share of 4%, meaning that 96% of all kites sold worldwide are Tube-kites.
:pump:
BREAKING NEWS

Just in !! ** 3% soft vs 97% hard **

** Ram airs are now feeling the extreme 0.75 PSI of pressure between their twin skins **
So do 4% of people own most of stuff on this planet but it doesn’t make them inferior.


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