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2 Fatalities in Tarifa

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edt
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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby edt » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:16 am

oh I've been out at Mitchel's Bay before that place is so Shallow I kept hitting bottom until I was about a mile out. I think that place you can only ride with a shorty mast. Possible that particular launch is just super shallow.

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:42 am

edt wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:16 am
oh I've been out at Mitchel's Bay before that place is so Shallow I kept hitting bottom until I was about a mile out. I think that place you can only ride with a shorty mast. Possible that particular launch is just super shallow.
I hate to tell you this edt ... but Mitchell's Bay is not part of Lake Ontario! :advise:

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Re: Help Connecting Flysurfer safety to Ozone harness

Postby edt » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:16 am

e

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby Onda » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:27 am

When you´re out at sea and anything goes wrong, you typically have some time to think about the best action. And there are several options you should consider thoroughly because the wrong one can be your last one.
But you have to be aware of all options "by heart" without recaping them first in your mind - that will take too much time.

Very much different if something goes wrong on the beach during launch / land! Immidiate release is the solution always.

I thus like Germán´s longish description because it is all relevant and true.
I think everyone should really, really think about all possible situations he could get into at sea and how he should react in every single case. Again and again and again.
Particularly when you plan to go out into open ocean / waves / currents.

Stay safe!

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:56 pm

I have been a commercial fisherman for many years. In my opinion most kiteboarders and people in general do not have enough respect for the sea. I am not criticizing them. It is just an educated observation. The are just not capable of making sound judgement calls. Locally riders go well outside swimming distance in light winds and their plan A is relying on emergency services to get them back to shore. Commercial fisherman never think rescue services are their plan A. Nothing will change this lack of good judgement. Someone dies and folks talk about safety and how we should do it better. then about six months passes and everyone is back to old habits. It is just the way it is.

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 pm

SalmonSlayer wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:56 pm
I have been a commercial fisherman for many years. In my opinion most kiteboarders and people in general do not have enough respect for the sea. I am not criticizing them. It is just an educated observation. The are just not capable of making sound judgement calls. Locally riders go well outside swimming distance in light winds and their plan A is relying on emergency services to get them back to shore. Commercial fisherman never think rescue services are their plan A. Nothing will change this lack of good judgement. Someone dies and folks talk about safety and how we should do it better. then about six months passes and everyone is back to old habits. It is just the way it is.
I'm not sure I completely agree with this. I don't know any kiter who considers rescue services as their "plan A". More likely they just don't expect anything to go wrong & don't have a plan A at all. The dangers from kiting seem to more often be the result of bad decisions regarding unstable wind/bad launches rather than lack of "respect for the sea". It does seem to me that foiling in extremely light winds opens up the possibility of more misjudgements regarding "swimming distance" though - almost the exact opposite of underestimating the danger of strong winds.

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:05 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 pm
I'm not sure I completely agree with this. I don't know any kiter who considers rescue services as their "plan A". More likely they just don't expect anything to go wrong & don't have a plan A at all.
I do know kiters that think it is OK to go out in marginal winds and use emergency services as plan A. I have been ostracized for suggesting that this is not a good plan.

Kiters dont know what they dont know, so their decisions are made without a full deck of knowledge and proper fear of the sea. Ask kiters if they think they keep an eye on their fellow for safety. Almost all of them will say that they do. They dont. They lack the caution and experience needed to condition them to be vigilant. I have spent more time working on the water than 99% of kiters. Folks dont understand how fast things can go wrong and dont consider more than one or two factors when making kiting decisions.

No matter what we do, mistakes will still happen. Most kiters are not watermen and kiting is their first real consistent activity on the water. I am not criticizing them. I am just stating reality. the first step to overcoming lack of knowledge is understanding that you have a lack of knowledge

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby Flyboy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:22 pm

SalmonSlayer wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:05 pm

I do know kiters that think it is OK to go out in marginal winds and use emergency services as plan A. I have been ostracized for suggesting that this is not a good plan.
Where is this?

Pretty much all my kiting is done in onshore, or at most side-on winds. Cold water/air is the major hazard to watch out for. In 35 years of windsurfing/kiting I've never needed "emergencies services" ... not can I think of anyone else that did. I do think foiling has created a new potential problem as it's now possible to get far upwind/offshore much more easily.

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby SalmonSlayer » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:04 am

Puget Sound Washington

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Re: 2 Fatalities in Tarifa

Postby Flyboy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:48 am

SalmonSlayer wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:04 am
Puget Sound Washington
Wow. Tides? Currents? Thermals? Shifting wind directions? That's about as complicated a kiting environment as you can get. I can see how that might lead to issues ...


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