Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Forum for kitesurfers
Sarda
Rare Poster
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:04 pm
Gear: Bit of everything
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby Sarda » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:11 pm

I stopped using my much loved Dynabar first session after taking it off an Ion harness and putting it on a Dynabar harness. The clips had no bar retaining screw. If anyone finds an old Dynabar, let me know!

User avatar
Slappysan
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 935
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:54 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Wave Bandit Performer 4-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby Slappysan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:11 am

Most of you will probably bash on this but I tried a few sliding setups and didn't like any of them enough to jump with so I gave Fireball a go and I think it's the best of both worlds and use it exclusively now (even though I don't fly Cab kites).

tmcfarla
Frequent Poster
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:35 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby tmcfarla » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:24 am

Been using my diy rope slider for several years, and I would not change back to a fixed hook. However- sliding spreader is not as good for jumping, is not as good for heavily powered riding, cannot be riden unhooked, and offers little or no benefit if you don’t spend a lot of time riding toe-side. Basically, it is less versatile, and I think that explains why it isn’t more popular. If you ride a strapless board- you really should give it a go, otherwise it might prove to be more trouble than it is worth. Been a while since I rode a twin tip, but even though I use toe side a lot on a twin tip, I think I prefer a fixed hook for TT.

Regis-de-giens
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1123
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12&.369 , Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:22 am

One really valuable option is replacing the original long hook by a shorter ring fixed in the center by a short dyneema loop. I have been loving it from years as you get the best of the two worlds (not for unhooker of course). I attach my Chicken loop on the little ring between my fingers :

Image

Why not more used ? I do not know but I think it will developp . Enata just developped one beautiful and expensive system :
Image

I also added a second more classic rope system as you can see on the picture so I can choose fix or sliding point at each session and get used to both .

Image

But honestly I do not feel a lot of difference during my loved Toeside ridings, which are anyway far improved in both case vs classic hook. So mini-fixed point is my overall prefered system : best for jumps, and great for short arms as it increases the power stroke (but taller guys may have to add little pigtails on rear lines connections to compensate for the CL closer to you).

The sliding rope main advantage vs mini-fix ring is to me a "geometrical automatic" little bar sheet-in in toeside, while fixed hook looses power... so, sliding rope requires less flexion and effort from the rear arm to keep the same traction as heelside ride : more comfortable for long TS rides.

Da Yoda
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:20 pm
Style: Strapless Freestyle, Wave, Freeride
Gear: Firewire/Tomo Surfboards
Loyd Surfboards
Brand Affiliation: iKitesurf
Location: Western USA
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby Da Yoda » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:07 am

What's the word on some of the more ridged alternatives like NP's S1 Tracker EZ s-bar or Ion's C-Bar Metal Slider s-bar? Seems like both of these could be a good "middle ground" alternative.
I'm currently using a rope s-bar, but I'm interested in trying the Ion Metal version since I'm doing some strapless freestyle. I agree with the statements here about jumping with a rope s-bar... it's not as nice as a hooked (or ridged) connection imo.

User avatar
rynhardt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:51 pm
Local Beach: Langebaan
Favorite Beaches: Langebaan
Style: Freeride
Gear: Cloud C2 17
Hoff Twinwave
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby rynhardt » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:25 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:22 am
One really valuable option is replacing the original long hook by a shorter ring fixed in the center by a short dyneema loop.
Similar setup :thumb:
Attachments
DSC_0024.JPG

User avatar
jaystore
Frequent Poster
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am
Local Beach: Rome
Brand Affiliation: JAY
Location: Rome
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby jaystore » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:24 pm

The answer is quite simple:
Dynabar was available in 2008 but all kitesurf brands didn't take care of this new system (we made some proposal to some leader brands without success).
RideEngine started selling DYNABAR with their custom harnesses around 2014, when become Slinkshot they started to produce their own copy.
When all other brands saw the DYNABAR was good and gives a lot of benefits all inserted a copy in their catalogue.
Since last year all brands offer it, it shows sliding is the future.

It's quite simple to understand how the market works: a new product can be technically good but it is null if the big brands don't see business and decide it's time to make money out of it. They don't care a lot if JAYSTORE is going out of business, this is the business rule.
Nevertheless it has been great to be the first (in love should be the other way around , so let do it 8) )
These users thanked the author jaystore for the post (total 3):
Bartolo (Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:51 am) • windsuks (Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:18 pm) • Archer77 (Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:43 pm)
Rating: 30%

plummet
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6520
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Local Beach: EE
Favorite Beaches: NZ
Style: Terrain riding
Gear: Old wornout ozone.
Plummet hydrofoil and mutant
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby plummet » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:38 pm

jaystore wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:24 pm
The answer is quite simple:
Dynabar was available in 2008 but all kitesurf brands didn't take care of this new system (we made some proposal to some leader brands without success).
RideEngine started selling DYNABAR with their custom harnesses around 2014, when become Slinkshot they started to produce their own copy.
When all other brands saw the DYNABAR was good and gives a lot of benefits all inserted a copy in their catalogue.
Since last year all brands offer it, it shows sliding is the future.

It's quite simple to understand how the market works: a new product can be technically good but it is null if the big brands don't see business and decide it's time to make money out of it. They don't care a lot if JAYSTORE is going out of business, this is the business rule.
Nevertheless it has been great to be the first (in love should be the other way around , so let do it 8) )
I've seen you blame other companies for your lack of success in commercializing dynabar.
The reality is that big brands owe you nothing and in business it is a dog eat dog world.
The only people you can blame for your failing company are yourselves for your lack of business acumen to commercialize the brand effectively.
Since 2008 you have had ample time to rise up and be a leader in harness technology. The reality is that other companies starting after you have risen and surpassed you as harness suppliers.
I have your XTC harness hardshell harness with carbon spreader. It is a good harness with good features and is doing well. However, compared to the likes of mystic, Ride engine and other leading harness manufactuers it is agricultural and not as well finished. It is also more expensive and difficult to purchase parts internationally.
These users thanked the author plummet for the post (total 2):
kaioe (Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:09 pm) • Megabear (Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:41 pm)
Rating: 20%

User avatar
Laughingman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2965
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm
Local Beach: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay
Favorite Beaches: Kettle Point, Mitchell's Bay, Rondeau Bay, Long Bay, Cayo Guillermo, La Ventana
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Gen6 Flites 10m, 12m Gen2 Roams 6m and 8m, Cloud D 4.8, 6.2, 8.0, 10.4
Xeon Laluz, Mako Wide 150, Jellyfish Custom surf board quad fin 6', LF Impulse Foil and Kanaha Shapes 37" board
Engine Harness with slider
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby Laughingman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:36 pm

jaystore wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:24 pm

RideEngine started selling DYNABAR with their custom harnesses around 2014, when become Slinkshot they started to produce their own copy.
"RideEngine" or actually just "Engine" (Coleman had not yet started using RideEngine) had their own carbon sliding spreader bar back as far as December of 2012 so not sure when or why you think they were selling their harness with a Dynabar...?

If you are wondering why you guys failed to bring the market forward... its simple, your spreader bars were at the time way to gadgety (and they still are). Too many parts, and the nylon sleeves would wear out in a matter of a few uses. The steal slider was a horrible idea, the bungee is even worse and your website was impossible to navigate... even now... who puts their business for sale on their home page? FYI it took over 30 seconds for the home page to load... most people would have left after 10 seconds.

You are bitter, its very evident in the tone of your posts... who wants to support that? Not me. I use a slider now for 9 years, I started with a dynabar... I should have saved my money and made my own.

User avatar
jaystore
Frequent Poster
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am
Local Beach: Rome
Brand Affiliation: JAY
Location: Rome
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

Postby jaystore » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:52 am

I see that answering a question with the reality of things doesn't work.
Enjoy kitesurfing and sliding system...


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Oldman, Papiloko, SparD and 15 guests