Why isn't sliding rope bar more prevalent?

[matth]

I see that answering a question with the reality of things doesn't work.
Enjoy kitesurfing and sliding system...

Wow!! lot's of unkind words here today. I just want to say I have two of your metal sliding bars and love them, they are absoulty bomb proof and a great product IMO. It's not easy to do what you did and I think others should try to bring a product to market before they are so quick to criticize....Good luck to you and I applaud your effort.

[kaioe]

the dynabar idea is great but the product would need major impovemnet ....so many little things just look and feel like a prototype ....and in the first years you brought so many new versions that the product was old by the time it hit the shops ...and the new version was more or less the same than the previous ...

[jumptheshark]

There seem to be a pretty small number of kiters willing to have specialized gear in general.

Seems most people want jack of all trade type gear. There are always threads popping up about dual use boards for foiling and surf and it seems crossover type kites are by far the most popular.

Sliders are specialist gear, and like C kites or foil kites, or wake boots, they don't appeal to the majority of kiters.

[mikelet]

Easy one!!, it isn't more prevalent because strapless pro riders don' t use it....

[Cab Driver]

I've watching this for a while. I have a lot of experience kiting and have tried many different things over the years. My role allows me to tinker with the gear enough to see if I like a new concept or not. 10 years ago, I used a grinder to cut off the hook on my spreader bar. I made a larks head with a piece of webbing that had a ring on the end and looped it onto the spreader so that it could slide freely back and forth. I ruined possibly the best conditions I have seen on a downwinder in Miami with that system. The slamming to one side or the other was a deal breaker for me. 15 miles later, I limped off the water, disconnected the spreader bar, and threw it away.

A decade later, many people use a slider rope system. I like to use what people in the market use so I can understand the desire. That's part of the job. I thought maybe something has changed in 10 years and my system was slightly different. So I rigged up a simple slider system and made a slick connection out of a deconstructed Fireball lower bit and hit the water. What I can say is that nothing has changed in 10 years. The pull point is unstable and wants to naturally sit to one end of the spreader or the other. I will say that for a few of the moments where I was frontside, I freed up my hips a bit more which was nice. I had a regular Fireball bit with me thankfully, changed out mid-session, and went about 75% of the session on stock Fireball system. To me, I was much more comfortable with a fixed pull and found that for the 5% of the time that the slider was slightly better, the other 95% of time was misery. For me it's not worth it. I do ride Fireball and it's a big improvement over a hook and loop, so there might be something to that as well. My team members aren't big rope slider fans either.

However, I can see that a lot of people like the rope slider and that's okay too. Different strokes for different folks.

[Slappysan]

I tried 3 different sliding systems and had the same issues.

Once I switched to Fireball I haven't wanted to go back (and I don't ride Cab kites).

My only issue with it is that it's a bit of a safety issue if you don't keep an eye on it as it has a tendency to spin in the socket and wrap your leash around the lower part.

[jumptheshark]

I've watching this for a while. I have a lot of experience kiting and have tried many different things over the years. My role allows me to tinker with the gear enough to see if I like a new concept or not. 10 years ago, I used a grinder to cut off the hook on my spreader bar. I made a larks head with a piece of webbing that had a ring on the end and looped it onto the spreader so that it could slide freely back and forth. I ruined possibly the best conditions I have seen on a downwinder in Miami with that system. The slamming to one side or the other was a deal breaker for me. 15 miles later, I limped off the water, disconnected the spreader bar, and threw it away.

A decade later, many people use a slider rope system. I like to use what people in the market use so I can understand the desire. That's part of the job. I thought maybe something has changed in 10 years and my system was slightly different. So I rigged up a simple slider system and made a slick connection out of a deconstructed Fireball lower bit and hit the water. What I can say is that nothing has changed in 10 years. The pull point is unstable and wants to naturally sit to one end of the spreader or the other. I will say that for a few of the moments where I was frontside, I freed up my hips a bit more which was nice. I had a regular Fireball bit with me thankfully, changed out mid-session, and went about 75% of the session on stock Fireball system. To me, I was much more comfortable with a fixed pull and found that for the 5% of the time that the slider was slightly better, the other 95% of time was misery. For me it's not worth it. I do ride Fireball and it's a big improvement over a hook and loop, so there might be something to that as well. My team members aren't big rope slider fans either.

However, I can see that a lot of people like the rope slider and that's okay too. Different strokes for different folks.

Most of the undesirable Tic Tacking back and forth between extremes is contingent on the length of the rope, or geometry of the triangle it makes when the rope slider is loaded. Same as the old pulley bars. If anyone remembers those! If the rope is too short you get exactly what you describe. Abrupt movement between extremes where it tends to stay. Lenthen the rope a bit and there is a sweet spot where the slide is smooth and smaller in range until you really twist so it goes to end range. I bet there are plenty of people who have disliked the slider set up due to this reason as there is a common desire to shorten the chicken loop or bring the bar closer to the body (to maximise depower throw). In my experience there is such a thing as having the bar too close, and the sweet spot for a slider rope is still quite close.

Have played around with both a slider and a pivot going back and forth for months at a time. For use with a hardshell harness I prefer the slider. There is still too much torque for my taste with a pivot, but just like harness type and fit, it all comes down to preference. Have forgotten my hook spreader a few times on days when it was clearly TT weather and I don't really enjoy boosting big with a slider. It's not horrible, just not as good as a hook. Boosting strapless where you use less kite in order to keep the board on your feet is again a different thing where the slider feels fine. Like styles of kites and boards, I'm happy to have the variety and ability to choose specific tools for specific jobs.

[PugetSoundKiter]

...The slamming to one side or the other was a deal breaker for me.
...The pull point is unstable and wants to naturally sit to one end of the spreader or the other.

...However, I can see that a lot of people like the rope slider and that's okay too. Different strokes for different folks.

Most of the undesirable Tic Tacking back and forth between extremes is contingent on the length of the rope, or geometry of the triangle it makes when the rope slider is loaded. Same as the old pulley bars. If anyone remembers those! If the rope is too short you get exactly what you describe. Abrupt movement between extremes where it tends to stay. Lenthen the rope a bit and there is a sweet spot where the slide is smooth and smaller in range until you really twist so it goes to end range. I bet there are plenty of people who have disliked the slider set up due to this reason as there is a common desire to shorten the chicken loop or bring the bar closer to the body (to maximise depower throw). In my experience there is such a thing as having the bar too close, and the sweet spot for a slider rope is still quite close.

Have played around with both a slider and a pivot going back and forth for months at a time. For use with a hardshell harness I prefer the slider. There is still too much torque for my taste with a pivot, but just like harness type and fit, it all comes down to preference. Have forgotten my hook spreader a few times on days when it was clearly TT weather and I don't really enjoy boosting big with a slider. Boosting strapless where there is less dangle to keep the board on your feet is again a different thing where the slider feels fine. Like styles of kites and boards, I'm happy to have the variety and ability to choose specific tools for specific jobs.

Agreed not for everyone and agreed when set-up correctly and used for surfing or freeride it's awesome.

I tried quite a few setups before my DIY setup was optimized (for me) viewtopic.php?p=962422#p962422

[Pana]

Agreed the rope set up is not for all, I prefer it for toeside freedom in waves and nly use that setup. I may add that getting Jay products was not the simplest for me, perhaps that was instrumental to the history. Is a good idea for many, we should reckonise that.

To answer wour rotation question, yes I too sometimes get partial forward rotation jumping with a tt making me land toeside. It may be associated with uncentered pull (partially rotated hips) at take-off. More freedom has it’s downside I guess.

Whatever the gear and riding preferences we should agree that we are all having great fun

[knotwindy]

The people on this site are probably not indicative of most riders out there. Most folks at most sites seem to be b&f riders, not riding waves or trying tricks. They don’t seem to be very experimental with their riding or their gear. They mostly just ride what they learned on and that’s good enough for them. Why change if you’re comfortable enough and it seems to work well enough? It was hard enough for most to just get waterstarted and get upwind.
They don’t ride 150 days a year so when they get time on the water they don’t ask is something better or worse? It never really gets that far, they just go ride what they have to have fun.