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Is strapless overrated?

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PullStrings
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby PullStrings » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:13 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 am
Note: A couple of the top guys ride strapped surfboards at our open lake
They were always our best windsurfers, ride with skill and style, they know what they like and I applaud them for killing it.
Nice to hear

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jumptheshark
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:39 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:13 pm
jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 am
Note: A couple of the top guys ride strapped surfboards at our open lake
They were always our best windsurfers, ride with skill and style, they know what they like and I applaud them for killing it.
Nice to hear
Their both getting into foiling.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby PullStrings » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:45 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:39 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:13 pm
jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 am
Note: A couple of the top guys ride strapped surfboards at our open lake
They were always our best windsurfers, ride with skill and style, they know what they like and I applaud them for killing it.
Nice to hear
They are both getting into foiling.
**** I'M SHOCKED !! ***** Nah not really

Makes me wonder if they will want to ride with " both " their feet strapped since they are addicted to that secure feeling already ??

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:17 pm

bragnouff wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:51 am
There's an inherent magic in balancing all the forces and elements involved in kitesurfing, and riding strapless successfully, you have to be fine tuned and subtle, controlling that delicate equilibrium, and in itself, it can lead to a sense of flow and resulting happiness.
On the other hand, some prefer the attitude to muscle it through (with straps). Doesn't mean it's necessarily less rewarding, but it's just down to personal preferences.
bragnouff makes a great point here, though it does deserve some clarification.

The short of it is that when you approach strapless and strapped with the same level of aggression, strapped will allow you to put more effort into it, should you choose. This also means that the rider of a strapped board pushing it for the most exciting "roller-coaster" ride possible, will have much greater forces acting on them than a strapless kitesurfer ever could have. This is the basis on which kitesurfers who are competent at both strapped and strapless, actually make the choice as to what is better for them. And the choice is between:

A. Strapless with a focus on limiting the force from the kite even when off the wave, limited ultimate force applied to the board (less sturdy board construction required) making precision movements with lots of steps and moving around on the board, predetermined aerial maneuvers with no option to change mid air, reading the break and choosing a "path out" through the break carefully

or

B. Strapped with a focus on limiting the force from the kite even when off the wave, limited ultimate force applied to the board (less sturdy board construction required, though more sturdy helps with lifespan of board) no need to make precision movements but rather apply forces in a precision manner through the straps, predetermined aerial maneuvers with an option to change mid air out of necessity such as a gust, with no need to read the break on the way out as straps allow easier jumping at heights required to clear large incoming waves

or

C. Strapped with a focus on generating higher forces (better roller-coaster ride) including straight line acceleration, lift, speed entering the turn, speed exiting the turn (all of which necessitate a stronger board construction), aerial maneuvers and changing those maneuvers mid air by choice or when the opportunity presents itself,

Another way to think of it is that if you have strength/endurance limitations, or joint issues, you may want to take the straps off and try to simulate prone surfing's approach by going strapless. This will reduce the stress on your body. That is not to say that you can't get a good workout strapless, nor that strapless is injury free - but strapless is less taxing on your body overall. The obvious reason for this is that with strapless, you are constantly limiting the power of the kite, not just when you want to ride the wave, but even when you want to accelerate. Given that acceleration from the kite is the basis for force applied to your body, limiting that by being strapless is a good way to limit how much you get beat up. Though this is somewhat negated by loosing your board in the break and getting pounded in that break while trying to get back to your board.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:56 pm

jumptheshark wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:37 am
Note: A couple of the top guys ride strapped surfboards at our open lake,...... They were always our best windsurfers, ride with skill and style, they know what they like and I applaud them for killing it.
All of the windsurfers that I know who changed over to kitesurfing back before kites with good depower/wave kites were developed, developed strapped skills, and have mostly stuck with strapped riding. A few of those riders do go strapless when conditions are tame enough to warrant an extra challenge.

But every single kiter I know that has developed their kitesurfing skills after 2010, focused on strapless from the beginning of their experience. And my own experience is similar to that since I was enamored with the idea of no longer to having to be stuck in straps on a windsurfer. Even before I started kiting, I did lots of experimentation with going strapless on all sizes of windsurfboards. The conclusion was that the straps on a windsurfer were needed. And my dislike for having to have straps on a windsurfer was one of the primary catalysts for me wanting to learn how to use a directional kitesurfing board.

So jumpy, we were not all that much different at the beginning of our experience. We actually had our minds set upon the same goal. However we did take different paths. While you only did strapless with a surfboard, I forced myself to first learn the strapped jibe before taking the straps off - after which I thought I would be forever strapless. But since I learned both strapless and strapped, I could compare the two with a great degree of scrutiny. And the difference was enough to break through my personal belief which was nearly the same artful, religious, flowery, and "hyped up" mentality that you had of what kitesurfing should be.

This thread is littered with two easily demonstrable realities that most posters in favor of strapless riding:
1. lack sufficient strapped experience to make an informed comparison between strapped and strapless
2. lack even primary understanding of "how" a strapped board operates

Given that strapless, with the proliferation of extremely friendly (beginner through advanced) kites on the market, along with wave kites, strapless will likely continue in popularity. This is because the mentality of prone surfers to simulate prone surfing, and the mentality of windsurfers to loose the straps, along with the advertising hype/focus of most COREporate kiteboarding, will continue on this trend for a long time into the future. Honestly, with most new entrants to kitesurfing following your path of not even bothering with strapped kitesurfing, the trend will likely never end.

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby jumptheshark » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:34 pm

Wow!

I guess you know best man. Strapless really is overrated.
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:20 am

One amazing thing about strapless is the cost of the boards, you can pick up older cheap surfboards so easily. So plentiful. You can learn about all different shaped boards without breaking the bank. When I see kite companies asking $1200 for a surfboard manufactured in Thailand China or Vietnam to clueless riders in often crap wave destination and people buying them for kite surfing, without the first clue about surfboards, it clearly shows how clever these companies are at marketing. It dumbfounds me the supposed high end crap boards even some friends ride after repeated advice (they know now though finally) because they simply believe a talented marketer that is a absolute kook or at least bender of the trust, rather than a experienced honest rider. Mind you, best way is to learn yourself - problem is when you have spent so much on a board the brain is reluctant to swap it out purely for financial reasons. Also you get used to what you have and opening your mind to change is not easy for some... your board is best.. of course.

To give you an idea, an epoxy shortboard costs in the region of $160 US in bulk.... made by someone that earns $2 US an hour.

Strapless is clearly financially advantaged.

The garbage I have heard people talking about kite branded surfboards just leaves me in disbelief, it's narrated straight from the kook marketers mouth... often regarding board they have never even ridden.

I dont actually know of any riders on earth that ride straps at the top level of surfboard riding. Sure there are days i think it is a good idea with straps, and it is fun .... something different.. but at at the very top level of kitesurfing you just don't see it.

maybe surfboards with a straps and a handle will make in into the olympics? Sounds about right with sailing trying to run their kiting clown shows.
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:10 am

I'll explain another aspect of marketing:

The kite companies show the best kiters in the world, in magazines, online clips & blogs, kiting strapless on the best waves in the world, in beautiful azure waters, with side shore winds & perfect, long barrelling waves ... or doing 40 foot, strapless, double back rolls with a kite loop. Joe kiter looks at the pics & thinks "damn that could be me" & goes off to buy the board/kite/harness/wetsuit etc. the pro is using. Because the best kiter in the world is riding strapless, Joe thinks he ought to be riding strapless. That's the way marketing works.

Personally, I ride an 11 year old custom board made by a local shaper with a good knowledge of the local conditions. I paid $300 for it used. It's awesome ... & it happened to have inserts for three straps :thumb:
Last edited by Flyboy on Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PullStrings
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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby PullStrings » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:01 am

Personally one on my go to board is a production model that works great in many conditions.
Paid $300 2 years ago .It was a used 2014 model in good shape. It's such an awesome board
Has the inserts for two
North Nugget TT contruction 5'2" x 21" Quad
North Flexzone footstraps

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Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby knotwindy » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:06 am

My $2.34 cafeteria tray works much better without straps. In any conditions, If that helps.


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