Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Is strapless overrated?

forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Flyboy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1240
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Flyboy » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:20 am

knotwindy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:06 am
My $2.34 cafeteria tray
Custom ... or production?

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 969
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby Matteo V » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:30 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:20 am
One amazing thing about strapless is the cost of the boards, you can pick up older cheap surfboards so easily. So plentiful. You can learn about all different shaped boards without breaking the bank........

....Strapless is clearly financially advantaged....
Yes, and you break fewer boards strapless vs strapped, though all of us that have tried to anything from a pop-out to custom board made for prone riding know that strapped will definitely reduce the lifespan of any board, and strapless will increase it. Most strapless boards, unless reinforced, are still pretty much disposable. So with that, as you said, you get to try lots of boards at a low cost. Just make sure you take measurements off the board before it snaps in half.

But as I have stated before, 'glue some inserts into a prone surfboard, put the straps on, and that board would be lucky to last a few weeks if you ride it to its shape's full potential'.



longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:20 am
When I see kite companies asking $1200 for a surfboard manufactured in Thailand China or Vietnam to clueless riders in often crap wave destination and people buying them for kite surfing, without the first clue about surfboards, it clearly shows how clever these companies are at marketing........
Actually, the boards/shapes that kitesurfing companies produce are always on the edge of performance given that they desperately try to cater to being strapped or strapless. Some companies do offer strapless only models, but most tout the majority of their offerings as being good for strapless or strapped. This forces these shapes to find a middle ground between being good for the lower forces applied at multiple points when dancing around a board in strapless, and being good for higher speeds and faster turning when prying and pressuring in the straps. Construction is also a very tight balance where being too heavy and stiff for strapless does not yield a good feeling ride if you are trying to simulate prone surfing. When trying to keep a strapped board light for the option of strapless, durability suffers immensely under the greater pressures and impacts of strapped.

So it is not necessarily that companies are "marketing with hype" to the customers. They just have a near impossible task of keeping both extremes happy. Yes, selling to both types of user helps sales, but many riders in this thread have even admitted that they sometimes use the straps, and sometimes do not.

As far as the user being clueless about surf shapes.....well, you do realize that most of the shape (volume, length, rocker) is there for getting up on the wave, not riding it when actually up on a plane. And that is where kitesurfing departs from prone surfing completely. You can simulate prone surfing with a kite, but you never really have all the peices there as there is no hand paddling to get up on a wave. And for even your best/cleanest waves in kitesurfing, you can use a board shape that is flat out too small (and too low in volume) to ever have a chance of catching a wave while prone surfing. So while you can use the same board as you would prone surf (shortboard up to a longboard or even SUP board), more performance is had in tighter turns and maneuvers with the shortest board possible in both sports. Thus if you can use a board too small to ever prone surf while kiting, and that "too small for prone surfing" size yields higher performance, why not use it. The only reason to use the same board size for prone surfing as kitesurfing is to simulate prone surfing while kitesurfing. As others have stated, if that is what you are going for, kitesurfing a prone surfing board is great practice for prone surfing - so go for it!



longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:20 am
....problem is when you have spent so much on a board the brain is reluctant to swap it out purely for financial reasons. Also you get used to what you have and opening your mind to change is not easy for some... your board is best.. of course.
Really read that above quote hard and think about this - Since you can ride a near infinite variety of board types and shapes with a kite, and the selection of different ridable shapes is not nearly as varied in size/volume/rocker in prone surfboards, why not move outside the box of "only using what you would prone surf with". I am not saying you have to try a wakeboard or skimboard on waves, but look at shapes/sizes outside of your normal selection prone surfing selection process. Given that you no longer have to hand paddle up onto a wave, you can loose lots of volume and get your foot placement closer to the planing surface of the board. Then, if you are ok with having more performance via less swing weight, go with more rocker. Hard or soft rails, to me, are a completely different thing in prone surfing vs kitesurfing - even back from when I was a dedicated strapless rider.

It is cool to pretend that you are prone surfing when you are actually kitesurfing, but for most, it will get boring after a while. Board selection within the confines of prone surfing has done one thing for the kite industry - it has pushed many strapless riders to hydrofoils for something different.



longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:20 am
maybe surfboards with a straps and a handle will make in into the olympics? Sounds about right with sailing trying to run their kiting clown shows.
The IOC has a track record of trying to make an Olympic event out of some dumbed down popular interpretation of just about every sailing sport. Then they put it in a box and certify only one manufacture to provide equipment. This equipment is typically stuff that no one would sail on a regular basis, outside of sailing in the Olympics. On top of that, when a sailing sport get's into the Olympics it's popularity seems to decrease after only a short run. So if you really wanted to kill the popular strapless mentality - put strapless in the Olympics, make it a flatwater racecourse on surfboard.

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2649
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Kiting since: 0
Style: Extreme Toilet Stance
Gear: Cquad, Waterskis, Gojoe and Reel leash. Orange lifejacket with the neck piece and whistle.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:20 am

absolutely

"why not move outside the box of only using what you would prone surf with"

ben wilson used to quote kite the board u surf, but that isnt my reality

i like super low volume for kiting unless just powered.. even then u gotta be able to get back upwind so i nearly alway ride pretty low.. in indo i had to ride higher cos they get crazy lulls

tomo style boards are so terrible for kiting unless u go super small, even then the wide tail gets easily out of control and front end in the way of turns.

knotwindy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1358
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:49 am
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: baja, gorge
Style: erratic to none
Gear: yes, I use gear
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby knotwindy » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:42 pm

Have you actually ridden a Vader for any length of time? Or at all? What you say is not true for me at all. :bye:

Flyboy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:20 am
knotwindy wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:06 am
My $2.34 cafeteria tray
Custom ... or production?
Production but killer custom paint job! :naughty:

User avatar
purdyd
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1055
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:00 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby purdyd » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:46 pm

i used to have an underground 110cm? tray. it was a lot of fun! I recall it cost more than $2.98. I rode a skim board, strapless for awhile. I wasn't really good at it.

We are getting off topic with the Tomo shapes but stub nose, stub tail, with rocker in the channel design is meant to allow you to ride a shorter board. I don't find that the nose gets in the way of turns rather the opposite, sometimes I miss having more nose.

I think they are great fun but I miss the extra nose of a more classic shape in steep waves. Because they are so short, I at least tend to use less forward and aft weight shifting and because they really like you to throw your weight at them in a pivot turn work well with straps. Which of course is interesting because you can't buy a firewire board with inserts.

And that is the trend I see, extremely lightweight construction with no strap inserts. I assume it is cheaper to manufacture but it doesn't seem to me that cost savings is passed onto the consumer.

But it does look cool!

PullStrings
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:54 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: LEI's & Surfboards
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby PullStrings » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:38 pm

Image
These users thanked the author PullStrings for the post:
purdyd (Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:07 pm)
Rating: 10%

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2649
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Kiting since: 0
Style: Extreme Toilet Stance
Gear: Cquad, Waterskis, Gojoe and Reel leash. Orange lifejacket with the neck piece and whistle.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:03 am

when i say less nose i mean less nose area in traditional shape sense, i should have been clearer.

what waves u r riding is biggest factor, decent sized and shaped waves i like a low volume traditional performance boards


these boards can make sense for smaller fatter waters tho, freestyle and the strighter rails can be a good thing while cruising around too.

nose design is a factor of duck diving ability too, some thing we dont need to worry about.
These users thanked the author longwhitecloud for the post:
purdyd (Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:12 am)
Rating: 10%

User avatar
mede
Frequent Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Villa-Arcadia.com
Sri Lanka West Coast (Kandathoduwa)
Favorite Beaches: Sri Lanka West Coast (Kandathoduwa), the endless and windy beach in front of villa-arcadia.com
Style: Strapless surfing, Big Air
Gear: Tomo Vanguard 5.2 (firewire kitesurf edition), Shinn Monk
Brand Affiliation: villa-arcadia.com
Location: Sri Lanka / www.villa-arcadia.com
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby mede » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:34 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:20 am
tomo style boards are so terrible for kiting unless u go super small, even then the wide tail gets easily out of control and front end in the way of turns.
I can explain this statement only if you either did never ride a Tomo shape (like a Vader or Vanguard), or you did try one that was sized for paddle surfing (and thus had ways too much volume).

Correctly sized, Tomo boards have so many advantages over a traditional surf shape when used for strapless kitesurfing(fast acceleration, need for less volume, upwind capability to quote a few :naughty: )
These users thanked the author mede for the post:
cor (Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:15 am)
Rating: 10%

longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2649
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Kiting since: 0
Style: Extreme Toilet Stance
Gear: Cquad, Waterskis, Gojoe and Reel leash. Orange lifejacket with the neck piece and whistle.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Is strapless overrated?

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:33 am

they have their place for sure

that is pretty much it.. go super small low volume

even then with wide ratio tails can get out of control easily, and when you turn you dont want a whole load of board in the way of your turn unless riding small fat waves

lower the volume in the back half and overall the more you can sink the tail.. more control

it is all compromises.. same with the straighter rails thing like u mentioned..suck for tight turns but track upwind better.


i have ridden 5'5.. was too big for me.. for kiting


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests

cron