What lightwind kite should I choose for a small rider?

[jadog]

Thank you all for your replies. You have all given me a great deal to think about. Based on riders who have used the Cloud, it sounds like that may not be a good choice. It also seems like moving to a foil board may save me in the long run based on a LOT of replies here. Again, I'm not apposed and would love to get there, but I am limited by space in my vehicle and those take up a lot more space then a TT.

So here's what I've concluded are my options and correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Keep my 12M Rally and only go out when the wind is blowing 9 knots or greater.
2. Buy a 12M Foil kite (Soul or Pulsion) and ride in 7-8 knots. A 15M may be needed for this range. I also figured that a directional type surfboard such as the Nugget or Sector would also keep me riding through any lulls at this wind speed.
3. Buy a 12M Foil kite (Soul or Pulsion) and combine with a foil board to ride in 5-8 knots. Figure out how to transport the board.

Additional thoughts. I really like the quality of the Soul kite but it sounds like the Pulsion is lighter and more likely to stay in the sky in lighter winds. Any comparison between these two kites? I presume the Pulsion is a lighter fabric and thus less resistant to damage. Does the Pulsion actually have a lower end or just less likely to fall out of the sky when the wind drops?

[Regis-de-giens]

Your comparision Pulsion vs Soul is exact on every point IMO.
And I confirm the conceptair not only fly in less wind but also give more power for waterstart and stay upwind in (a bit) less wind. Oppositely the Soul will have a more comfortable high end beyond 15 knots in TT. Relaunch have pro and cons for both.

Again to me 7-8 knot may be too low for 12m Soul (quite sure of it) and also maybe 12m Pulsion (to be tested) ; with a spleen TT door 160 (hence better TT than yours), my lower limit was about 9 knots with a significant lack of power to live a funny session.

Howerver jumps in light are quite a good surprise with these kites even in light wind.

Now if swapping to HF is just a matter of space, think again about it to consider a HF : some HF are really compact when distmantled and the gain in light wind is worse loosing 5 minutes to assemble it. In that case 12m ultralight kite is perfect for your range target.

[kitexpert]

How well kite stays in the air doesn't matter much for TT riding. If you know how to fly kite all modern kites will stay in the air plenty well enough. Your problem might be you are so light weight guy you don't have enough strength/counter weight to fly big kites efficiently. But on the other hand you naturally don't need as much pull.

However I've seen girls about 100lbs using biggest kites with good success. With 17-19m LEI and big board some of them can ride in 8knots and even below and enjoy it. Biggest difference when compared to normal weight guy 175lbs is that very light weight rider can still go upwind. In side shore wind I've sometimes given my kite and letting her to do upwind part me walking in shallow water or on the beach upwards then taking kite and changing parts

If wind is so weak kite really drops from the sky you can forget it. 15m foil kite is much better in low winds than 12m Rally and slightly better than a big LEI. But it is also slower and more complex to use and much more expensive. Some big LEI's are grunty with heavy bar pressure, for light weight rider they are too much to handle. Kite like Zephyr is much nicer.

[grigorib]

Hi Jadon,
The 14m 2012 Rally you sold would have been a great LEI for lightwind. I thought of replacing my 15m Turbine with it but it didn’t have enough pull for my weight. I think FSP still has his for sale.
There’s $60 investment to get you into much lighter wind on the 2012 Rally you’ve got - line extensions.
Buy line extensions to end up with 35-40m lines and you’ll feel magic of extra couple of knots your 12m (which is amazing light, but structured kite) would deliver.

13m Contra is another option to consider if you want to spend more money.

At your weight - try to avoid 15m, don’t even bother trying anything bigger than 15m

[Peter_Frank]

I think there is one thing which is not clear for new or for "medium" weight riders posting here.

You weigh 2/3 of the average weight rider, which means you need a kite that can stay in the air in a lot less wind than most other riders, no matter if you are on a lightwind TT or Hydrofoil in fact, as you will be able to ride in ridiculously low wind even on a TT.

Kites like the Soul and Hyperlink, are made "one for all", meaning as written, quite strong, really easy and good flying and relaunching.
BUT, they only come in one type (as far as I know, correct me if changed...).

Kites like the high AR racekites can come in both standard UL (Ultra Light) fabric, which means they wont hold up long when "raced" hard, but doesnt matter, they will get a new then.
You are not interested in this type of kite I can read, so out of the question.

Concept Air Pulsion can you get made in super UL with 27 g/m2 on top and bottom and inside, and 40 g/m2 which is the pretty "normal" fabric for allround use in more wind and for heavier riders, and almost every combination in between you like.

There are not that many non race foil kites you can get in lighter fabric, and that is the whole issue here.

Simply because you weigh 33% less than most.

I would say the difference in their power is minimal - it is the weight you have to focus on, nothing but that.
Buying used is not easy, as they are either not low weight, OR if they are UL, they are flown "bad" by heavier or more powered riders

Peter

[andylc]

The fabric that makes up most of the Soul is pretty much comparable to UL fabric eg from Ozone.
Standard Ozone fabric is 40g/sq m, UL fabric is 25% lighter so presumably 30g/sq m. Flysurfer Soul fabric is 32g/sq m except where they have used stronger fabric at the leading edge, so you’re effectively getting UL fabric but without paying the ludicrous premium that Ozone charge. Perhaps the tiny amount lighter fabric used on the Concept Air makes a difference, who knows.

[Peter_Frank]

The fabric that makes up most of the Soul is pretty much comparable to UL fabric eg from Ozone.
Standard Ozone fabric is 40g/sq m, UL fabric is 25% lighter so presumably 30g/sq m. Flysurfer Soul fabric is 32g/sq m except where they have used stronger fabric at the leading edge, so you’re effectively getting UL fabric but without paying the ludicrous premium that Ozone charge. Perhaps the tiny amount lighter fabric used on the Concept Air makes a difference, who knows.

Interesting in many ways...

What is the weight of a the 15 m2 Soul ?

The thing here is, that Flysurfer makes extremely good kites, meaning durable in the sense that they have experience and design it "right", besides clever sewing techniques - which helps a lot.

But at some point, when using thinner fabric all the way, it will also mean the kites can wear a lot faster, when used by medium or heavyweights on a TT - or in any way when powered or for jumping.

Which is the very reason so few use this material, mostly only marginal wind hydrofoilers, a few racers but only with the big ones as otherwise they wear too fast, and then the last group, super light kitesurfers like in this thread, one that might even use it for a hydrofoil later.

Peter

[slowboat]

The fabric that makes up most of the Soul is pretty much comparable to UL fabric eg from Ozone.
Standard Ozone fabric is 40g/sq m, UL fabric is 25% lighter so presumably 30g/sq m. Flysurfer Soul fabric is 32g/sq m except where they have used stronger fabric at the leading edge, so you’re effectively getting UL fabric but without paying the ludicrous premium that Ozone charge. Perhaps the tiny amount lighter fabric used on the Concept Air makes a difference, who knows.

Interesting in many ways...

What is the weight of a the 15 m2 Soul ?

The thing here is, that Flysurfer makes extremely good kites, meaning durable in the sense that they have experience and design it "right", besides clever sewing techniques - which helps a lot.

But at some point, when using thinner fabric all the way, it will also mean the kites can wear a lot faster, when used by medium or heavyweights on a TT - or in any way when powered or for jumping.

Which is the very reason so few use this material, mostly only marginal wind hydrofoilers, a few racers but only with the big ones as otherwise they wear too fast, and then the last group, super light kitesurfers like in this thread, one that might even use it for a hydrofoil later.

Peter

Not following why you think weight of rider matters that much as far as wear on a lightweight foil kite. Isn’t the wear mostly on the bridle and not the lightweight material?

[andylc]

Ditto - don’t think the fabric really wears as such - presumably just less strong if you abuse it.

[Peter_Frank]

I might be wrong, but having super thin fabric, the stitching will at some point start to wear meaning some might break and some might be torn a bit long?
Which is what I call "wear".

If the bridle connection points and stitching is not an issue, then we could maybe even use 15 g/m2 for UltraUltraLight foilkites for hydrofoils, right?

So you are saying the std thicker fabric is for those bashing their kites somewhat hitting sharp things, so they dont rip totally on the surface too easy?

Maybe you are right, I thought it was also to get these kites to last longer over the years without ripped or torn stitches/stitching which I assumed would be a bigger problem the thinner the fabric.

Peter