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Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

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downunder
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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:25 am

tomtom wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:45 pm
Downy, do you ever saw some grip on carbon paddle? Blisters are not from material hardness. :)
Jerry,

How difficult is to understand a selling point with beautiful carbon fiber paddle ?
Selling point mate, selling! How many carbon boards did you see completely painted?

Sure, I've never got any blisters from a sponge. Umm, and soft shoes? Socks? Stiffer (hard leather) shoes on the other side causes friction...

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:50 am

BayAreaKite wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:13 pm
downunder wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:44 pm
.
.

Your turn...
blisters are caused by friction, not material hardness.

The carbon we are all discussing is a composite material. Composites have 2 constituent components, the fiber and the matrix. The hardness of a composite depends primarily on the matrix. If it is epoxy vs. urethane vs. nylon you will have very different hardness. But regardless, hardness is a meaningless characteristic of the properties of a kite bar, unless you are discussing impact to your face.

Bare carbon bicycle handlebars are very common these days.
Sorry sunshine, do you actually ride a bike with a bare carbon handle? Cmon, even with a gloves, the surface would be very very slippery.
When riding, you sweat like hell. This means what? More grip is needed. So, no, for occasional bike rider, fine, for pros, not fine.

Same with the wet hands in the water.

I'm out of this discussion. Can't compete with a hype.

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:04 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:50 am
BayAreaKite wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:13 pm
downunder wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:44 pm
.
.

Your turn...
blisters are caused by friction, not material hardness.

The carbon we are all discussing is a composite material. Composites have 2 constituent components, the fiber and the matrix. The hardness of a composite depends primarily on the matrix. If it is epoxy vs. urethane vs. nylon you will have very different hardness. But regardless, hardness is a meaningless characteristic of the properties of a kite bar, unless you are discussing impact to your face.

Bare carbon bicycle handlebars are very common these days.
Sorry sunshine, do you actually ride a bike with a bare carbon handle? Cmon, even with a gloves, the surface would be very very slippery.
When riding, you sweat like hell. This means what? More grip is needed. So, no, for occasional bike rider, fine, for pros, not fine.

Same with the wet hands in the water.

I'm out of this discussion. Can't compete with a hype.
man, what is up with forums these days? Everyone thinks they're an engineer or a pro at every sport.

1) The thermal conductivity of aluminum is about 205.0 W/m K, bravo for getting that right. As for carbon fiber, some epoxy? try at least 30-40% by weight epoxy! The thermal conductivity of epoxy is about 0.15–0.25 W/mK. When you hold the bar, or any composite structure, you are touching the resin not the fibers. I'm a mechanical engineer and I've been working with composites my whole career and it is a very basic and well known fact even among non engineers that the thermal conductivity of composites is very low. Even if you sand the top layer of resin off, and touch the fibers, the heat cannot transfer between fibers because there is resin between them.

2) Secondly, sunshine, yes I do ride a bike with bare carbon handlebars. In my previous life I raced bikes with bare carbon bars. And I'm not the only one, see this link for handlebars in the tour de france: https://road.cc/content/tech-news/22547 ... tel-bardet I have never had a problem with slippery bars, and yes I know how to sweat. In fact some of my bars with handlebar tape (especially synthetic, not cork) are much more slippery.

It sounds like you are just trying to argue with people for the sake of arguing. The only sound reasoning you've made in this whole thread is that padding on the bar ends will prevent injury to your eye. But everything else you say is complete BS.

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:38 am

Well,

dear college, I am a Civil Structural Engineer. With MSc, and? Is your point who's got the bigger di.ck?

This bar looks completely sanded, down to fibers. So you are saying 30-40% is epoxy, so you are NOT touching 60-70% bare carbon?

Your argument is that 'some' of your bars are much more slippery? And I am arguing but your involvement in giving the feedback to a subject is to piss on my opinion....

Whow. Unbelievable. You did not find ANY issues what so ever worth to mention to OP as a mechanical engineer? Really? But you have find a HUGE issue with protecting your turf, which is "I've been working with composites my whole career". Poor OP, not worth of your time and involvement with a community.

The triathlon individual sits next to me, and he is riding 5000km per month. I asked him.

Re: https://road.cc/content/tech-news/22547 ... tel-bardet

Every single handle bar on this link has a grip tape. What is your point? When I said this is a personal preference how is that a BS?

Secondly, a few layers of carbon is NOT a thermal insulator. The epoxy you are talking about is only in MUCH thicker application, and for this bar, the wall thickness is max 1mm.

The ultra gloss varnished carbon helmet with 2 layers of Carbon and 1 200g fiberglass (0.4-0.5mm laminate) goes to 50-60C in less than two minutes on the Sun.

Less than 2 minutes! You can bake an egg on the carbon board left on the Sun, ffs....

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:52 am

5000 km/month? hahaha your BS just can't stop. Send me his strava profile.

Yes, every bar has some bar tape around the brake levers to hide the hardware used to attach them, among other reasons. But the flats of the bars, the area between the stem and the brakes, where you spend a lot of your time riding, do not all have tape and are bare carbon. So yes, even pros use bare carbon bars, which you claim is not the case.

No you are not touching bare carbon on these bars or anything composite. You would get nasty slivers if you did. You are touching epoxy, or clear coat. And again, even if you do touch sanded area, there is so much resin between the fibers that they cannot transfer the heat.

I have no turf to protect, only the dissemination of completely irrelevant and inaccurate information you are spreading. Hardness of carbon is irrelevant (and not 95 Shore A). The thermal conductivity is not 180. and pro cyclist do in fact use bare carbon handlebars bars.

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:07 am

My mistake, 1500 per month.

So you actually do not know how heat transfers in thinner carbon applications, but I am "spreading inaccurate information"?

So you actually have no desire to help to OP with your mechanical engineering knowledge and experience, and your only desire is to piss on my?

Hold on, maybe you own shares in this business? So, of course, you'll not piss on the product, but move the subject to something else. Cmon Kyle Lobisser, tell us, are you involved with Enata?

PS
"carbon fiber naked 180" - NAKED! So you're saying it cant be 180? Ah well...
Last edited by downunder on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby BayAreaKite » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:23 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:07 am
My mistake, 1500 per month.

So you actually do not know how heat transfers in thinner carbon applications, but I am "spreading inaccurate information"?

So you actually have no desire to help to OP with your mechanical engineering knowledge and experience, and your only desire is to piss on my?

And you are talking to me about carbon slivers:

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2382042&p=890031& ... et#p890031

Have you ever built anything in carbon actually?

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2394338

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2387451

Now I've showed you mine, you show me yours. Kiting related. Not wind farms please. If we talking about dic.s...You Yanks are unbelievable in your communication and respect. You need to deserve respect in the community, your 13th post is not showing any. This is about kiting, not bike riding...Or dic.s.

Hold on, maybe you own shares in this business? So, of course, you'll not piss on the product, but move the subject to something else.

PS
"carbon fiber naked 180" - NAKED! So you're saying it cant be 180? Ah well...
yeah, this is my latest kite-related creation: https://projectcedrus.com

What is OP? I am happy to help with my engineering knowledge and experience, it's why I posted in the first place. I think there's some merit to a bare custom bar, you're the one who pissed all over it. I'm not pissing on on you, simply correcting your technical inaccuracies.

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:52 am

You did not answer,

are you involved with Enata?

You are mistaking. I was the first one FOR naked bar, and presented this info years ago. So many questions, so little answers unfortunately.

I suggest you come to Australia and see for yourself how you can bake an egg on carbon board under our Sun. Something not easy to do in Seattle. Also, I would advice not do judge someone by the nick, coz I'm very very proud Croatian. Thanks

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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby evan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:08 am

Of course the blisters will not happen on a slippery surface, so there you go, sanded carbon IS a very, very slippery surface. Providing there is no death grip on the bar when you will get blisters:)

7C degrees riding in water which is the same? Whow. You guys are phenomenal. Does any of you jump over 10m, or do 720m rotations with a board off on any temp? If you do, you would know what kind of grip is needed on the bar for one hand board operation. Talk with the pros, if you don't trust me.
We don't judge you on your nick, but on your way of reasoning and stating completely wrong assumptions as truth.

I don't make assumptions, I actually test stuff and do make 720's in those temps where 10m is considered a medium to low jump height.
From that testing I concluded that sanded carbon is as slippery or grippy as any other bar on the market and that is is enough of an insulator to not feel cold on your hands.

If you cannot cope with those truths and still feel the need to win this discussion I wish you all the best luck in the world, but then I am out and try to remind myself to never get into an argument with you again.

To remind you: bare carbon bar does not give you blisters, is not too slippery and does not conduct heat like bare alumuminium.

It does get hot under your sun, but those are a different kind of blisters and you are free to paint them white, add griptape or just buy something else.
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Re: Enata bar and spreader bar...any reviews?

Postby windmaker » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:22 am

evan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am
downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:08 am


Whow. You guys are phenomenal. Does any of you jump over 10m, or do 720m rotations with a board off on any temp? If you do, you would know what kind of grip is needed on the bar for one hand board operation. Talk with the pros, if you don't trust me.
Nothing phenomenal, I wish, just give it a try and stop relying on theories, sometimes in practice things are different.

Carbon bars surface slides in a different way (mine/home made) than eva grip but for my personal use it actually helps. When doing any kind of strapless freestyle jumps with a grab you have to centre your hand on the bar during the take off and flight to then slide the same hand to the side of the bar and loop the kite just before landing (those who ride strapless will understand) . In this regard I find the way bare carbon slides more predictable than eva.


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