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Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

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longwhitecloud
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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:24 am

What windsurfers can just drop in on kitesurfers lol wtf!

I get out my little red flag and waterproof sailing rules book as i use my priority rights to enter the water, always goes down well with the friendly locals.

Here is another awesome example of how kiteboarding isnt sailing and how you cannot just apply the rules of one sport to another.! In fact, in law where I live, it isnt classed as a sailing - it is classed as a surf vessel, and if these dumb sailing kooks think they can change that, they have another thing coming.

Simply eurocentricity. When you are well travelled you know reality - that anyone in their right mind would take the trouble to respect local tradition and laws at teh spots they ride. Get out your international sailing kook book and you are likely to have it swiftly jammed up your ass.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby Eduardo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:07 am

a random and unstructured mix of classical sailing rules, wave rules, and author opinions.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby taabsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:45 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:24 am
What windsurfers can just drop in on kitesurfers lol wtf!

I get out my little red flag and waterproof sailing rules book as i use my priority rights to enter the water, always goes down well with the friendly locals.

Here is another awesome example of how kiteboarding isnt sailing and how you cannot just apply the rules of one sport to another.! In fact, in law where I live, it isnt classed as a sailing - it is classed as a surf vessel, and if these dumb sailing kooks think they can change that, they have another thing coming.

Simply eurocentricity. When you are well travelled you know reality - that anyone in their right mind would take the trouble to respect local tradition and laws at teh spots they ride. Get out your international sailing kook book and you are likely to have it swiftly jammed up your ass.
I'm not from sailing background, neither I endorse kite being on sailing. We are a completely different sport.

But we do need rules and:

1.- I can only anticipate your trajectory if you don't change it suddenly.
That is why for me and the majority of people you need to keep track to maintain priority, and you lose it every time you change direction.

2.- if you can't change your direction easily or that quick change will get you in harm's way you should have the priority.
So this goes to beginners, people body dragging, people on the beach, etc.

3.- the collision course situation is not solved by the previous 2, so it's common knowledge to give priority to the rider going to the right. So if you have the red part of the bar in front, you lose priority.

Golden rule: avoid a collision at all time.

Local rules have nothing to do with this and should be respected if there is a forbidden place or any other laws they should be regarded but I don't think any of them apply to our riding.

I taught and traveled all over the world so I have seen a lot of different realities.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby Jan:) » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am

I really think it is better to just stick to the proven sailing rules.
All your personal additions to those rules simply do not work and in a pinch, they might actually lead to collisions.

There is a reason collision avoidance rules are as simple and clean as they are.

There simply must not be any margin to argue.
If you can argue here in the forum about them, how can you be sure you take the right point of view on it on the water?
Impossible.


Beginner having priority over experienced kiter - how do you know who is a beginner?

And even if you know - you as an experienced kiter with priority give way to a beginner.
Beginner is sticking to the sailing rules and is also giving way.

You both crash - who's fault is it?

Kiter riding the wave having priority - what qualifies at riding a wave?
I have seen people riding 10cm of whitewater feeling like they are Kelly Slater.

And even once that is clear, how do you know where the kiter riding the wave will go next.
On a pointbreak its pretty obvious, but on a messy beachbreak you simply cannot know.
So that rules does not provide you with a clear action to take, making it worthless.


And the most obvious flaw with these self invented rules.
How do you know the other kiter sticks to the same set of rules and not to some other ruleset someone else thought up?

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby taabsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:39 pm

Jan:) wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am
I really think it is better to just stick to the proven sailing rules.
All your personal additions to those rules simply do not work and in a pinch, they might actually lead to collisions.
All of these are sailing rules.
Beginner having priority over experienced kiter - how do you know who is a beginner?

And even if you know - you as an experienced kiter with priority give way to a beginner.
Beginner is sticking to the sailing rules and is also giving way.

You both crash - who's fault is it?
If the person is a beginner you can clearly see that. Do you expect a beginner to avoid you or do you think you should avoid being in his wind window? I avoid being in his wind window and if i am and ha crashes it's my fault as i can't expect him to control if he is learning.

SO if the persons are having lessons don't kite near them as they can't avoid you, get stressed and make even more mistakes because of the competent rider.

But I'm curious to know what are your sailing rules that differ any of the ones I presented.
And even once that is clear, how do you know where the kiter riding the wave will go next.
On a pointbreak its pretty obvious, but on a messy beach break you simply cannot know.
So that rules does not provide you with a clear action to take, making it worthless.
if you are on a wave and you are following that trajectory it's one thing if you are catching and decide to change is another.

So if you change your direction (2) you lose priority. So either you are already going down the line and that is your direction or you are not and you are going to turn to catch the wave. in both cases, you need to see if you can do the maneuver.

These rules are sailing rules and nothing is actually made up by me.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby vela99 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:30 pm

One thing I find difficult to deal with is that there are kite specific rules which other spot users like windsurfers or sailors may not know about. The more specific rules are the more difficult it becomes.
I for one did not know that a kiter has the right of way when entering the water until I started kiting. It makes sense but many windsurfers do not know this.

By the way, I always thought the sailor going out against the breaking waves has the right of way over the sailor on the wave unless specific wave spot rules apply. Has this general rule changed? I doubt it.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby taabsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:35 pm

vela99 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:30 pm
One thing I find difficult to deal with is that there are kite specific rules which other spor users like windsurfers or sailors may not know about. The more specific rules are the more difficult it becomes.
I for one did not know that a kiter has the right of way when entering the water until I started kiting. It makes sense but many windsurfers do not know this.

By the way, I always thought the sailor going out against the breaking waves has the right of way over the sailor on the wave unless specific wave spot rules apply. Has this general rule changed? I doubt it.
Like in sailing 2 things you should have in mind:

1.- avoid the collision at all times.

2.- the lower ability to maneuver determines priority.

Lot's of people including windsurfers don't care about these rules, unfortunately.

If you are on a proper wave you will have a harder time to change direction because your maneuver space is limited by the wind and wave, if you are going out against the wave in between the waves you can quickly turn around and get away from there to return after the wave has passed.

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:21 pm

i give another good example in kiting that is unique to kiting

cross onshore or onshore conditions. riders are trying their very best to get upwind to do a trick/waveride

Along comes mr kook "i read kiteboarding is sailing, I know the rules of kiting , Starboard!!" (the trick/wave/session cycle is on port) and now this rider has the ability the mess up the session as they can pinch enough wind by slowing down demanding starboard.

Good luck with that!

Like I said, where I live kiteboarding is not classified as a vessel - it's classified as a surfcraft, and thank f$% for that!

Anyway it is an interesting discussion and yet another example of one sport (sailing) trying to reinvent the history of another (kitesurfing) for their personal gain$.



Thing is sailing does not have the ability to loop their kite accidently (they have a sail not a kite on lines!), fly 100 ft downwind in seconds by accident, do a jump and end up out of control downwind in a second, skip sideways way overpowered downwind 40ft in one second.

This is just another reason kiteboarding is not sailing and why those world sailing kooks will end up with huge liability problems.

I anticipate peoples trajectory based on how they simply look/kite. It has kept me out of trouble! Give kooky looking sketch riders a super wide berth.

Kiteboarders need to be WAY more cautious than sailors.

Anyone that knows the history of kiting knows that kiting has historically had its own set of rules and guidelines.



"I for one did not know that a kiter has the right of way when entering the water until I started kiting"


absolute garbage where i have kited . Show respect on the beach and keep your kite low... and wait for a gap - don't just barge in. wtf!

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby revhed » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:30 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:52 pm
How to check if you have priority?
You don’t, I’m a local so I do.
No matter what. Always.
Deal with it....
:thumb:
If Super small spot, did non,s talk with locals for info?
Does non,s display a high enough level for both spot and wind conditions.
Overall respect?
Is there enough space for all? if not, NO NONS!
Where I ride is often very gusty and strong, like really strong! NONS who show lack of skill will and have been shut down, and will be again!
Brought cold beer for after session? :cool2:
R H

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Re: Do you know the Kitesurf Right of Way Rules? Find out how to determine if you have priority

Postby grigorib » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:52 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:21 pm
i give another good example in kiting that is unique to kiting

cross onshore or onshore conditions. riders are trying their very best to get upwind to do a trick/waveride

Along comes mr kook "i read kiteboarding is sailing, I know the rules of kiting , Starboard!!" (the trick/wave/session cycle is on port) and now this rider has the ability the mess up the session as they can pinch enough wind by slowing down demanding starboard.

Good luck with that!
...
If that new guy read rules of navigation more carefully he’d have leart very clear that:
- if a pattern exist it must be followed
- rider on the wave is less maneuverable, more restricted vessel and has right of way (same for surfers/wimdsurfers/foilers)

I guess right thing would be to ride next to him and tell him “it’s a pattern riding here dude” and then explain on shore the details, and instead of an enemy you’ll have a friend. But I know how easy it is to get emotional :)
longwhitecloud wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:21 pm
...
"I for one did not know that a kiter has the right of way when entering the water until I started kiting"

absolute garbage where i have kited . Show respect on the beach and keep your kite low... and wait for a gap - don't just barge in. wtf!
It’s a rule I disagree with very much as well.
A vessel on water has more freedom and is safer than vessel by the shore. But boats float. An airplane on the ground is way safer and has more freedom (specifically freedom to stay in place safely) than an airplane in the skies. On the other hand if guy near shore can’t get out (worse if he can’t even fly the kite freely restricted by trees or other obstructions) because people are continuously blocking him - that’s bs too.
Rarely this one becomes a problem and it is rather a pain when an extremely slow guy gets in or gets out. Literally some people can block whole launch/landing area fo quite some time. The worst comes when they “insist on anchored self-launch/landing”
Last edited by grigorib on Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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