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Core bar - correct trim

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CaptainCore
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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby CaptainCore » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:39 pm

deniska wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:11 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Look at it from bar designer point of view
He anticipates that all the lines will become even when the kite is flying and that's what you want
Smart
This is an interesting theory.
Stretching / shrinking may take time.
If I understand the process, dirt, sand and salt crystals get in between fibers making them thicker and shorter.
So are you saying that designer wants you to fly an untuned kite meanwhile?
Stretching/Shrinkage is often a result of temperature changes. All things expand and contract with heating and cooling, kitelines are no different, what is an issue is differential shrinkage, one more than the other. Here in the temperate UK, we don't get a lot of massive temperature changes, but kiters travel and return and any kiter who moves around the planet should be constantly aware and check and if necessary strecth/adjust any differences that build up. This regardless of brand.

Attached is a pic of Core dealers recieving instruction from the line manufacturer on correcting length differences by stretching individually on a bar randomly selected from the beach.
linestretchcapverde.jpg

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deniska
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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby deniska » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:38 pm

CaptainCore wrote:
deniska wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:11 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:44 pm
Look at it from bar designer point of view
He anticipates that all the lines will become even when the kite is flying and that's what you want
Smart
This is an interesting theory.
Stretching / shrinking may take time.
If I understand the process, dirt, sand and salt crystals get in between fibers making them thicker and shorter.
So are you saying that designer wants you to fly an untuned kite meanwhile?
Stretching/Shrinkage is often a result of temperature changes. All things expand and contract with heating and cooling, kitelines are no different, what is an issue is differential shrinkage, one more than the other. Here in the temperate UK, we don't get a lot of massive temperature changes, but kiters travel and return and any kiter who moves around the planet should be constantly aware and check and if necessary strecth/adjust any differences that build up. This regardless of brand.

Attached is a pic of Core dealers recieving instruction from the line manufacturer on correcting length differences by stretching individually on a bar randomly selected from the beach.
linestretchcapverde.jpg
This is even more confusing.. if temperature was a major factor you would see different performance of the kite after you dunk your lines in cold water...
why would a temperature change affect lines that are about the same length and width differently?
Some experts in this article seem to agree with my previous statement, blaming it mostly on stuff that gets in between fibers with time.
https://www.wetestkites.com/2016/10/14/ ... ite-lines/

Now your screenshot shows calibration w/o pigtails.. so if this is official recommendation from CORE, I'd go with it..
Just checked with my 2 bars, and if you leave pigtails on, and calibrate with my method, the difference in lengths would be less than a centimeter as opposed to the method above.
Probably not enough to notice the difference, I never did.

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby PullStrings » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:48 am

Last edited by PullStrings on Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:34 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby k2thiago » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:01 am

According to the manufacturer (and personal experience) you should trimm without the pigtails. I did It mostly because I have moved the cleat height, after have spoke directly with the Core guys. If you have the sensor pro with tectanium lines will rarely need to trim it.
Works perfecly. Be sure to have the bar “fully powered”.
Regards

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby knotwindy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:13 am

Just to be clear and complete about tuning lines, these videos and other information assumes that the front lines are even. They have not been checked so if you want to be really accurate you have to hook the chicken loop to something solid and check the two middle lines first. Then you can match the outside lines to them as shown. And yes, the middle lines can be off relative to each other as well.
And after you get these two things done, you still have another step. Put the kite in the air and find the stall point. Kite bridles, front and back, can change as well. And different kites can be off as well. Until you fly it, you just don’t know.

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby deniska » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:35 am

very interesting posts...
However I still don't understand why factory pigtails have different lengths..
There are many bars with non-replaceable pigtails that are the same length, so technically speaking CORE kites will not fly well with them w/o some additional trimming..
That was actually my experience with ozone/RRD bars, but I though the difference was due to different Y split point...

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby james » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:05 am

Denis, It’s ok to admit I was right. ;-)

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby PullStrings » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:31 pm

OP @BernieTomic1
My explanation really only makes sense if the pigtails on front lines are shorter by 3-4 cm than the pigtails on back lines
But would not make sense if the opposite is what you have

Tell us which pigtails are longer
On your front lines or your back lines
Thank you

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby BernieTomic1 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:22 pm

I have given the bar to the local kiteshop to do a safety line replacement, which looked like a major hassle.
I'll update as soon as I have it again.

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Re: Core bar - correct trim

Postby deniska » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:07 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:31 pm
OP @BernieTomic1
My explanation really only makes sense if the pigtails on front lines are shorter by 3-4 cm than the pigtails on back lines
But would not make sense if the opposite is what you have

Tell us which pigtails are longer
On your front lines or your back lines
Thank you
I checked 2 of my bars and steering line pigtails are about 1cm shorter on both.
Both sets are fairly new (1-3months; one came as a replacements set and another came with a new bar) but both seen some action.
My theory (and I could be wrong here) is that they originally were about the same length, but then steering line ones, with less load, shrunk a bit.

BernieTomic1, if you have 3-4cm shorter backline pigtails that may indicate more shrinkage due to more use... although 3-4cm seems like quite a bit and you may want to compensate for that...

I don't like explanation that a new bar ships un-tuned, in expectation of future shrinkage.. seems like bad marketing to try to screw up 1st time impressions on a brand new purchase.


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