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Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

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ice1969
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Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:31 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Weight: 180
Local Beach: New Jersey
Favorite Beaches: Anegada / Loblolly Bay, Sandy Spit / Jost Van Dyke
Style: Intermediate
Gear: Slingshot SX 143
Nobile XTR
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby ice1969 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:02 pm

Dirk wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:26 pm
I do all the above, but predominantly TT. Large TT 44cm width and small with 41cm width. I weigh 73 kg.

11m Pivot: starting 11-12 knots with large TT. Sweet spot around probably 15-17 knots with smaller TT gusting into low 20ies

8m Pivot: 18 - 30 knots (gusts). 20-25 knots are perfect.

At 30 knots plus gusts I currently use a 7m Naish Slash also for TT, which works pretty good.
Thanks again! I'm 175-180 lbs (79.4-81.6 kg). I started out thinking I'd get a 2 kite quiver of 9m and 12m Nexus 1 kites, largely because of the rumored build quality and price. With the Nexus 2 out now the Nexus 1 can be had a rare discount as Core apparently never allows their kites to be discounted. One of my buddies is on the Sections and just goes on and on about the quality. I'm not as wave focused yet but definitely want to get into that as well as foiling. Thus, the Nexus 1 seemed like a good wave and foil capable all-rounder and decent value for me.

I have two TTs; a 143 Slingshot SX (42 cm wide) and a Nobile XTR (143 x 48). I am looking to get a hydrofoil and looking forward to learning that. Do you the 9m /12m combo would be good for my weight and getting out in 10+ knots? Should I consider the Boxer in a 12m or 14m to get out in winds that low?

Onda
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby Onda » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:34 pm

On Core´s quality and flying characteristics: I really think they´re exceptional.
I always hated Core for their super-exaggerated and aggressive marketing (even though I was born near their headquarters). I never touched anything from Core, I never wanted it.
After having owned many different wave kites from different brands over many years, I finally decided to give a Core Section1 in 7 m² a try (used), because all reports on this model sound like it might be exactly what I´m looking for.
Long story short: I have to admit that I´m amazed by the build quality and the flying characteristics of the Section1. It is a heavy kite, but flies really well even in very low wind (for the size of the kite). It is super nice with a foil, unbelievable for the kite´s weight. The low-end is not too good when you don´t move the kite, but it generates surprisingly much power when you move it a bit, and it flies super-well even when overpowered and heavily sheeted out. Hence, the kite design seems to be really superior compared to all other kites I´ve owned. They either have a super good low-end and very limited high-end, or vice versa. The Section has it all.
The kite feels like almost new even though it is 4 years old already.

Dirk
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Local Beach: St. Peter Ording
Favorite Beaches: St. Peter Ording, Tarifa, Guincho, Sylt
Style: Freeride, jumping, waves, foiling
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby Dirk » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:52 pm

I also have the Boxer 14m (2019) and 11m (2020). I bought the 14m to have a kite above my 11m Pivot for TT riding starting around 10 knots and to learn to foil in low winds.
If it is 10-15 knots and I want to ride the TT I usually take this.
I learned foiling with it last year in around 10 knot winds (with a large surf foil) and was very happy about the stability in the air.

I then added the 11m in spring for foiling in these winds and sub 10 knots, as I started to get overpowered with the 14m riding faster now on the foil. I also do freeride with the TT with it.

Apparently I have a lot of overlap in my quiver, but I am sharing it with my son, who almost has the same weight as me now.

My most used kite is the 11m Pivot. I would not replace it with an 11m Boxer as I want to have the jumping performance and top end. The Boxer is a very nice freeride kite, light and playful and has great (if not the best) stability for a 1-strut kite. Especially nice in the low to mid wind range. It feels of course softer than the Pivot and has less jumping performance, but jumping still is fun.

As a 14m going into really low winds I prefer the Boxer to a 14m Pivot (which I have never ridden). Here I am just keen on maximum stability in lulls and the Boxer is really good in this respect.
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ice1969
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby ice1969 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Dirk wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:52 pm
I also have the Boxer 14m (2019) and 11m (2020). I bought the 14m to have a kite above my 11m Pivot for TT riding starting around 10 knots and to learn to foil in low winds.
If it is 10-15 knots and I want to ride the TT I usually take this.
I learned foiling with it last year in around 10 knot winds (with a large surf foil) and was very happy about the stability in the air.

I then added the 11m in spring for foiling in these winds and sub 10 knots, as I started to get overpowered with the 14m riding faster now on the foil. I also do freeride with the TT with it.

Apparently I have a lot of overlap in my quiver, but I am sharing it with my son, who almost has the same weight as me now.

My most used kite is the 11m Pivot. I would not replace it with an 11m Boxer as I want to have the jumping performance and top end. The Boxer is a very nice freeride kite, light and playful and has great (if not the best) stability for a 1-strut kite. Especially nice in the low to mid wind range. It feels of course softer than the Pivot and has less jumping performance, but jumping still is fun.

As a 14m going into really low winds I prefer the Boxer to a 14m Pivot (which I have never ridden). Here I am just keen on maximum stability in lulls and the Boxer is really good in this respect.
Thank you for this info! I think I may have read some of your posts in another thread about these kites. What is your weight that you can ride a TT with the 14m Boxer in 10-15 knots? I'm 175-180 lbs. Where are you located and what are your winds like? I am in the mid-Atlantic -- kiting mostly in southern New Jersey and Delaware -- and find that so many days are right on the cusp of what I deemed my minimum wind speed of about 15 mph on my old 2011 12m Switchblade. I stepped away from kiting for a minute and am getting back into it now. It seems like kite tech has improved a ton, but I'm still surprised to hear about people putting up 11-14 meter kites in such light winds, and actually being able to go. I really want to get out there more and am really trying to figure out how to maximize my days by figuring out this low end.

walester
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby walester » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:14 pm

I have flown both CORE and Naish and I am now Naish all the way (except I fly them on North Navigator bars). I am 195lbs, TT rider, and my local spot is typically 18-25 knots most days.

I never liked the CORE bar, and the CORE kites never seemed to fly well with any other bar. I found the bar too thin and the grip wears down really fast on it. I also didn't find that the kite was any more durable than other brands. After 2 years of flying the Nexus 1 I had 3 pinhole repairs which is 3 more than I have ever had on other kites, and the reinforcement straps where the struts attached to the trailing edge were fraying badly. The kites flew wonderfully, they're smooth performers, but there was never anything exciting about them. They were like going fast in a luxury Mercedes, somehow you got going quickly but you missed all of the visceral sensations getting there. I am not a foiler yet, but I can imagine how this type of characteristic would be useful for foiling as you don't want a ton of grunty power.

With the Pivots I can always rely on having an exciting session. They give me an exciting ride each time I take them out, but they are predictable and stable at the same time. They react well to steering input so when you want to boost they move upwards faster than the Nexus which creates a much more powerful boost. I find both kites have the same weight in the hands. I ride fairly overpowered and won't go down from my 12M pivot to a 9M until about 25mph. I found the same thing with the Nexus, they have a large useable range as well and was able to ride an 11M Nexus I had from 16mph up to almost 30mph.

The Naish kites are really well built in my opinion. The new inflate valve is awesome and the fact that you can pump them up to almost 11 PSI demonstrates the strength of the material used. I like the addition of the leading edge bumpers too. Probably unnecessary weight but it's a nice durability touch.

I don't think you can actually go wrong with either of them for what you're intending to use them for and I think you'll be happy on both. I think if you want more aggressive and boosty then go with the Pivot, if you want more smooth then the Nexus is your kite. Just know that when you move to CORE their kites only seem to love their CORE bar and you won't be flying any other brands of kites with the CORE bar as the High V split and safety is different than most kite brands will accept.

Dirk
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Local Beach: St. Peter Ording
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Style: Freeride, jumping, waves, foiling
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby Dirk » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:18 pm

160 lbs. Big TT is an old Naish Hero 145 x 43,5. Riding mostly at the North Sea in Germany all year long. I mean 10 knots is really the lowest threshold for me to ride the 14m with the TT. If it is 10 knots average and dropping below that it does not work. I am on my foil then.
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ice1969 (Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:24 pm)
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ice1969
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby ice1969 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:20 pm

walester wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:14 pm
I have flown both CORE and Naish and I am now Naish all the way (except I fly them on North Navigator bars). I am 195lbs, TT rider, and my local spot is typically 18-25 knots most days.

I never liked the CORE bar, and the CORE kites never seemed to fly well with any other bar. I found the bar too thin and the grip wears down really fast on it. I also didn't find that the kite was any more durable than other brands. After 2 years of flying the Nexus 1 I had 3 pinhole repairs which is 3 more than I have ever had on other kites, and the reinforcement straps where the struts attached to the trailing edge were fraying badly. The kites flew wonderfully, they're smooth performers, but there was never anything exciting about them. They were like going fast in a luxury Mercedes, somehow you got going quickly but you missed all of the visceral sensations getting there. I am not a foiler yet, but I can imagine how this type of characteristic would be useful for foiling as you don't want a ton of grunty power.

With the Pivots I can always rely on having an exciting session. They give me an exciting ride each time I take them out, but they are predictable and stable at the same time. They react well to steering input so when you want to boost they move upwards faster than the Nexus which creates a much more powerful boost. I find both kites have the same weight in the hands. I ride fairly overpowered and won't go down from my 12M pivot to a 9M until about 25mph. I found the same thing with the Nexus, they have a large useable range as well and was able to ride an 11M Nexus I had from 16mph up to almost 30mph.

The Naish kites are really well built in my opinion. The new inflate valve is awesome and the fact that you can pump them up to almost 11 PSI demonstrates the strength of the material used. I like the addition of the leading edge bumpers too. Probably unnecessary weight but it's a nice durability touch.

I don't think you can actually go wrong with either of them for what you're intending to use them for and I think you'll be happy on both. I think if you want more aggressive and boosty then go with the Pivot, if you want more smooth then the Nexus is your kite. Just know that when you move to CORE their kites only seem to love their CORE bar and you won't be flying any other brands of kites with the CORE bar as the High V split and safety is different than most kite brands will accept.
Great info! Thanks so much for taking the time to share all of this!

Chicken-loop
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Re: Comparisson between the Naish Pivots vs Core Nexus

Postby Chicken-loop » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:14 pm

ice1969 wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:57 pm
Chicken-loop wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:31 pm
I just sold my Core XR5 and after 3 years and not a wrinkle in the canopy. The dacron they use is awesome and plays big part in how stable the airframe is and how long they last but it is heavier than the teijin that Naish use. Core quality is awesome. I didn’t like the white bar or twist release, but it was light and reliable. The Sensor 3 looks better.

However I kept my Pivots because they I enjoyed flying them more. Quality is also awesome, but I would happily have the Nexus if my preferred kite shop sold them. I really like the Naish bar and the lines have exceptional wear characteristics.
Thanks for this info! What type of riding do you do, I.e. twintip freeride, surfboard in waves, hydrofoil? What is your weight and what size Pivots do you use in what wind ranges? Thanks again!
I’m 100kg and ride a surfboard in small waves. I have Pivots in an 8 (>18 knots) & 10 (16- 25 knots) and just ordered a 14m Boxer.

If they made the Pivot with the same leading edge material as the Core, I think that would be my perfect kite. The dacron that Core uses provides so much structural strength and stability to their kites.

I don’t think you could go wrong with either a Nexus or Pivot.
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