Good kite for boat

[jakemoore]

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... nt-6023763

Do they still make these out leader kites?

[Regis-de-giens]

I have very few time currently, i can give more details tomorrow.
I tried first with a LEI attached to me and a unadapted boat : nightmare.
Then with a 420 boat and a 15m2 foilkite attached to the centre of the boat (custom attachment). Very nice. Then same boat with a 10m LEI that I pumped in the middle of the sea : great !

Then this last one attached to me : less comfort and efficiciency but the wind was strong and I was affraid to damage the lite or the boat with the custom attachement point.

[Munti]

So in Regis-de-giens video the kite is attached to a person. If the kite were to end up deep in the window and suddenly powered the load on the lines would be limited by how fast the kite flier accelerates out of the boat. Worst case scenario is a skilled kiter in the water body dragging back to the boat.

Long ago when I was learning to fly traction kites I attached a 12.5M Flysurfer Psycho to the roof rack of my car. It was a windy day and I didn't feel confident to launch the kite and hold it myself but really wanted to fly. The kite dragged my car about 50 feet then ripped the roof rack off my car.

I think you are doing the right thing by starting small e.g. with the trainer and a rowboat. Next might be a kitesurfing kite attached to a kiter in the rowboat as shown by Regis-de-giens video. I have seen similar video using a Hobie-Cat. You might try a kitesurfing kite attached to a kiter standing on the deck of your yacht?

You might check out Peter Lynn on the Max/Min problems and also Dave Culp Speed Sailing

http://www.peterlynnhimself.com/Kites_For_Yachts.php
http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/

Kites have come a long way since then, but we still are not seeing a lot of kite boats. As I see it the challenges requiring significant development are:

1) get enough sail area,
2) have a very simple drop the bar/control line depower system
3) have a weak link/fuse so if too much line tension is generated it breaks in a controlled and safe way, bringing the kites down on a safety line
4) have a traveller to adjust COE fore and aft, starboard and port

I think a Flysurfer Peak 4 would be a fun and interesting kite to play with for these purposes and at minimum would offer a nice experiment attached to a kiter sitting in a row boat.

Good point attaching the kite to me instead of the boat. I certainly should do that until I'm 100% sure I'm not overpowerering the boat.
I'm not that concerned about the min/max problem. I don't intend to sail regatta with this, and if I need high speed I'll just go by motor power. So underpowering a lot is ok for my use. Many of my nicest sailing trips have actually been at speeds below 5 knots. Not much action of course, but gives me time to enjoy the scenery and silence.
I defenitly want to take small steps, so next step is to use a bigger kite in rowboat, and then start testing it on my sailboat (viking boat style, 30ft, a little less than 2000kg.)

Is Peak 4 water launchable? I am actually considering the flysurfer soul. According to what I have read, it has both stability and good upwind ability. Any comments to that? Not sure if I should start with 6m or 8m though. If it works out it would be my gale kite sometime in the future.

Interesting idea in that second link. Stacking kites. Maybe that could be developed to some kind of reefing system in the future?

[Munti]

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... nt-6023763

Do they still make these out leader kites?

They gave up long ago

[jakemoore]

Peak 4 is not reliable in water launch. But is easy in water recovery, is exquisite in its safety system, has low power spike and is among the easiest kites to keep in the air. Its priced nicely so less heaetbreak if the experiments damage the kite.

The problem with max/min is that it will find you even if you arent looking for it. The tethered man lift guys often find out the hard way. Something is going to break when the kite goes to deep or too fast through the wind window and is attached to something big.

Soul has more of the traditional performance foil kite behavior where sheeting out does not directly depower. The kite flies faster and momentarily pulls harder until you can get it to the edge of the wind window. Greater max/min. I love the performance of the Soul but im thinking safety for a novice flier attaching a kit to a boat.

Peak luffs like a sail. The 5th line is the ideal recovery as its not loaded and completely depoweres.

BRM cloud would also be a choice for me because again its easy to keep in the air and luffs like a sail when you want the pull to stop.

[jakemoore]

Also, I think stacking will offer a solution to get enough power for a boat with off the shelf kites. But a bridled traction kite will need to be modified to allow the stack because the tow points are behind the leading edge and move fore and aft with depower.

[dylan*]

Why not just use a boat made for sailing instead of trying to jerry rig a kiteboarding kite onto something? Sounds like a massive hassle for very little purpose, this is already a solved problem

[Munti]

Peak 4 is not reliable in water launch. But is easy in water recovery, is exquisite in its safety system, has low power spike and is among the easiest kites to keep in the air. Its priced nicely so less heaetbreak if the experiments damage the kite.

The problem with max/min is that it will find you even if you arent looking for it. The tethered man lift guys often find out the hard way. Something is going to break when the kite goes to deep or too fast through the wind window and is attached to something big.

Soul has more of the traditional performance foil kite behavior where sheeting out does not directly depower. The kite flies faster and momentarily pulls harder until you can get it to the edge of the wind window. Greater max/min. I love the performance of the Soul but im thinking safety for a novice flier attaching a kit to a boat.

Peak luffs like a sail. The 5th line is the ideal recovery as its not loaded and completely depoweres.

BRM cloud would also be a choice for me because again its easy to keep in the air and luffs like a sail when you want the pull to stop.

Water launch is a must for me. Can't launch in marina, so have to go out a little, and then launch. And also want to be able to lauch spontanously while far out. Maybe I can build some launching rig someday, but for now water launch is the only option.
So the soul does not depower? Ok, that's important to know for sure. As a noob I will need depower a lot I expect. And further down the line when I do attach the kite to something big, something will break as you point out unless I can depower. Does the hyperlink depower? Is BRM cloud water launchable?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to tell me this. I was already so set on the soul that I almost felt like arguing
Will have to be patient to get the best possible starting point I assume...

Will look more at stacking when I am much more experienced. Very interesting idea though.

[tomtom]

You need grunty kite optimized to low flying speed - otherwise kite will sit on edge of WW with little pull because you boat will had almost no speed.
Normal kites are optimized to generate apparent wind while ridden fast.

[Munti]

Why not just use a boat made for sailing instead of trying to jerry rig a kiteboarding kite onto something? Sounds like a massive hassle for very little purpose, this is already a solved problem

Because a sailing boat typically has a hull that just won't go fast no matter how big your engine is (I don't want a kat or anything along those lines. Want a comfortable boat that is safe in 8+ meter waves). I need a fast boat to get out of the areas that I have been sailing in for 20 years. I will keep my sailing boat, but want a faster boat as an addition. And both semi planning and planning hulls should be well suited for kite. So only need to make sure the boat has the structural integrity that is needed to hold a kite. If it doesn't have it, it's easy to add on a wooden boat.