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Good kite for boat

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Munti
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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Munti » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:13 pm

Stacking is interesting because it offers flexibillity. I have to try this of course, but I think it should be possible to slide another kite up the lines of the one you already have in the air. just have some stops at right distance from first kite. The second kite would only need fifth line. With that I could "reef". In other words get it down while the first one stays in the air.

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:43 am

tomtom wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:58 pm
Forget about stacking - buy more sizes if needed. 5m is very good size to start. Peaks are very unique kites - you will understand how good they behaves once you try other kites. The price for this behavior is less performance and worse L/D ratio but for you application it doesnt matter much. You never reach speed with boat where it start matter.
I again fully agree

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Munti » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:08 pm

I obviously will buy more sizes when I'm ready to handle them. And when both of you are so clear about the stacking, I'll have to assume you are right. Would be interesting to know why you think it's a bad idea though

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby tomtom » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Only reason to stack is save money so you dont have to buy big kite. Only stackable kite i know was PL arc. And people stack them in early 2000s. But even then was just too much hassle to be worth. Stack was slow to turn unrelaunchable much more problematic to launch and land and potentionaly much more dangerous. With peaks i cannot even imagine how will you do this because kite is in way of launch extension for second kite. Anyway the same as two wings planes disapears stacking kites disapears. With kites you want things as simple as possible because you flight them in unstable conditions. Also with stacking you gain very little 2x5 will not pul as single 10m. Imagine one kite to colapse and steer other to uncotrolable deathloop. There are dozens of dangerous scenarios with stack that noone even experienced yet. Kiting is dangerous enough as it is... No need to do something which will be not twice but multiple times more complicated. Beside biggest peak can weight about 1.5 kg and take space of 2 tshirts...
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Munti
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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Munti » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:42 pm

Can someone give me a crash course on line lenght. From what I read just a few meters make a substansial difference. I'd like to fully understand.

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby jakemoore » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:21 pm

Advantage of stacking is it will let you go beyond 20m in size with off the shelf kites. We are talking about a boat that weighs many tons. The alternative is fully custom large kites.

Disadvantage is that for kites with good depower, the tow point is behind the leading edge. That means the stack lines will have to go through the canopy. It require modification of the kite.

No doubt, forget about stacking until you reach the limit of what you can do with off the shelf kites.

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby jakemoore » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 pm

For sailing the biggest difference for longer lines will be to reach better wind.

For kiteboarding, the longer flight through the wind window gives a longer power spike making it easier to get on plane or on foil.

There is a drag penalty of long lines and a difference timing jumps.
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Munti
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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Munti » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:08 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 pm
For sailing the biggest difference for longer lines will be to reach better wind.
Reaching better wind meaning reaching higher? So in order to reach better wind without losing the gains because of changed L/D ratio the lines would have to be very much longer?

jakemoore wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 pm
For kiteboarding, the longer flight through the wind window gives a longer power spike making it easier to get on plane or on foil.
I assume that can be taken advantage of on a boat as well if you fly your kite actively from a boat in a downwindish direction. Any drawbacks except reduced upwind performance?

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby jakemoore » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:48 pm

Munti wrote: Reaching better wind meaning reaching higher? So in order to reach better wind without losing the gains because of changed L/D ratio the lines would have to be very much longer?
It depends on what the wind is doing wherever you are. There are papers exploring the theoretical limits of long kite lines due to weight and drag.
Munti wrote: I assume that can be taken advantage of on a boat as well if you fly your kite actively from a boat in a downwindish direction. Any drawbacks except reduced upwind performance?
Soon you will be the expert and can report your findings back to us.

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Re: Good kite for boat

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:36 pm

I would start with 16m to 20m lines for first trials. Longer lines will be less tolerant to wind change in direction or force. Actually during a Gust, kite will require more time to reach its new balanced location in the window, leading to a bit less stability and exagerated punctual pull in gusts .

Stacking requires to have kite attachment points on wings extremities only and with no other bridles going to the center. This is barely the case except PL Arc's. Really no interests IMO.

Again and unlike standard sailing, I advise you to turn downwind (gibes) rather than upwind (tack) to avoid boat backward risk , thus having kite pull in your normal forward direction to finish your turn With no need of reverting boat driving weel . Then when you get comfortable with kite and boat combo, you can test tack upwind.


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